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  • AP - Mahdi Army disintegrating

    BAGHDAD - The violent Shiite militia known as the Mahdi Army is breaking into splinter groups, with up to 3,000 gunmen now financed directly by Iran and no longer loyal to the firebrand cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, adding a potentially even more deadly element to Iraq's violent mix.

    Two senior militia commanders told The Associated Press that hundreds of these fighters have crossed into Iran for training by the elite Quds force, a branch of Iran's Revolutionary Guard thought to have trained Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon and Muslim fighters in Bosnia and Afghanistan...

    The outlines of the fracture inside the Mahdi Army were confirmed by senior Iraqi government officials with access to intelligence reports prepared for Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

    The information indicates a disintegrating organization yet a potentially even more dangerous foe, they revealed, on condition that their names not be used.

    The militia commanders and al-Maliki's reports identify the leader of the breakaway faction as Qais al-Khazaali, a young Iraqi cleric who was a close al-Sadr aide in 2003 and 2004.

    He was al-Sadr's chief spokesman for most of 2004, when he made nearly daily appearances on Arabic satellite news channels. He has not been seen in public since late that year.

    Another U.S. official, who declined to be identified because of the information's sensitivity, said it was true that some gunmen had gone to Iran for training and that al-Khazaali has a following. However, the official could not confirm the number of his followers or whether Iran was financing them...

    The Mahdi Army commanders, who said they would be endangered if their names were revealed, said Iran's Revolutionary Guards were funding and arming the defectors from their force, and that several hundred over the last 18 months had slipped across the Iranian border for training by the Quds force.




    Follow the link for the full story. Very interesting turn of events, if true.
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  • #2
    Factions within factions...

    Good thing? Bad thing? Unclear to me.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Arrian
      Factions within factions...

      Good thing? Bad thing? Unclear to me.

      -Arrian
      depends what you think of Muqty.

      Anti-muqty spin - Deprived of revenues, his thugs arent loyal, and are going off in all directions, some to work with the coalition, some to get Iranian support, while he dithers, and fades as a force. The smaller factions while they may start shooting things up now, will be easier to mop up, and create an opening for political compromise that Muqty was obstructing.

      Pro-Muqty spin - Hes a true Iraqi nationalist, who wants us out but opposes all this sectarian bloodletting, which was mainly done by the Badr brigades, who have been protected by the eevil neocons, and by rogue Mahdi army types. Now, he will have less control, and the sectarian violence will increase, spinning out of control, and he, one of the few voices against civil war, will not be able to stop it.

      Part of the difficulty with the above is that while Muqty DID go around saying he was against sectarian violence, and that only rogue Shia elements (and his Badr brigade enemies) were doing it, my impression is nobody on the Sunni side actually believed him.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #4
        Two senior militia commanders told The Associated Press that hundreds of these fighters have crossed into Iran for training


        Sounds like a great opportunity for some border control and neatly grabbing several hundred fighters

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
          Two senior militia commanders told The Associated Press that hundreds of these fighters have crossed into Iran for training


          Sounds like a great opportunity for some border control and neatly grabbing several hundred fighters
          If you had the forces in place to control the borders, but we all know Shinseki was wrong and Rummy was right, and we could whip Saddam's ass with both hands tied behind our backs. So now we get this **** and no force adequate for sustained control of the Syrian and Iranian border.
          When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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          • #6
            I never got the sense that the Mehdi Army was very well organized anyway. Mostly just two-bit very violent thugs.

            If it is disintegrating, I think that's mostly for the good (how can it be bad?), but don't view it as a big deal. Or rather, a very interesting no big deal. If you're the Battle of Baghdad center-of-gravity type like MtG, you might see this as more of a positive sign.
            Last edited by DanS; March 22, 2007, 16:26.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DanS
              I never got the sense that the Mehdi Army was very well organized anyway. Mostly just two-bit very violent thugs.

              If it is disintegrating, I think that's mostly for the good (how can it be bad?), but don't view it as a big deal. If you're the Battle of Baghdad type like MtG, you might see this as more of a positive sign.
              Lack of distinct command and control is a real doctrinal problem for the US. We like to decapitate by focusing intel assets on distinct leaders, and prey on centralized C&C via SigInt, traffic pattern analysis, etc. Hence, when al Zarqawi got too into opening his big mouth on videos, we located him and gave him a couple of 500 pounders for a tonsilectomy.

              Small independent groups each following their own agenda are tougher to eradicate by force, and far tougher to disband through political processes.

              BTW, I'm much more of a battlespace denial and interdiction type than a battle of Baghdad type. The only reason we need (now, or back in Falluja) to get ass in the alleys in an urban environment is because we failed to exploit prior opportunities to search and destroy weapons and ordnance caches early on, before there was a heavy insurgent/sectarian mob/aQiI/mischellaneous ******* presence. Back when we were in denial that there was a meaningful insurgency, or even before it got off the ground, we could have done much to deny them the materiel to be effective and to deny them access to the borders.
              When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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              • #8
                I'm doubtful about this pretty weak claim. Sadr has proved extraordinarily wily in the past, and if fighters nominally loyal to him are going to Iran, it's probably his idea.

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                • #9
                  Meh. The most violent parts of the Mahdi Army were always the groups that were least under Sadr's control. The most interesting example of this was the "Army of God" movement that almost defeated the Iraqi army and bombed the **** out of Najaf, which has strong ideological similarities with the Sadrists. Sadr seemed to have authorized Maliki's purge of these more disloyal elements, so its hardly a suprise that they'd repudiate him. Needless to say, the net results of this event are pretty ambiguous.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

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                  • #10
                    It also couldn't hurt to spread this information around, even if it weren't strictly true. Sadr in hiding gives lots of opportunities to do whispering campaigns.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #11
                      The leader of the breakaway Mahdi Army faction sure didn't last very long...

                      BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A man with ties to a radical Shiite cleric is in U.S. custody in connection with an attack that killed five American soldiers in Karbala in January, U.S. officials said.

                      "Over the past several days, coalition forces in Basra and Hilla captured Qais Khazali, his brother Laith Khazali and several other members of the Khazali network," the U.S. military said in a statement Thursday.

                      The military said the network is "directly connected" to the killings in Karbala, a Shiite city south of Baghdad.

                      Qais Khazali was known as a spokesman for Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's political movement in 2004 in Baghdad's Sadr City, but it is not clear whether he is still involved with al-Sadr's movement.




                      Should you want to know more, AllahPundit is the man for all your analysis needs...

                      Last edited by Drake Tungsten; March 22, 2007, 23:36.
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                      ASHER FOR CEO!!
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                        The leader of the breakaway Mahdi Army faction sure didn't last very long...


                        The leader of the breakaway faction?

                        Might want to check your pronouns there. Maybe come back in six months or a year.
                        When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                        • #13
                          From the article linked to in the OP...

                          The militia commanders and al-Maliki's reports identify the leader of the breakaway faction as Qais al-Khazaali, a young Iraqi cleric who was a close al-Sadr aide in 2003 and 2004.


                          Your posts used to be a lot more intelligent and interesting, MtG. What happened?
                          KH FOR OWNER!
                          ASHER FOR CEO!!
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
                            The leader of the breakaway faction?

                            Might want to check your pronouns there. Maybe come back in six months or a year.
                            Journalists stopped thinking when copying army reports, AP went to the trashbin.

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                            • #15
                              You're slipping, Drake. Fourteen posts and you have yet to try and link this to Barack Obama.
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