Which do you think was worst?

[Pekka]

Well, I did mention the killing part as a factor and not just disappearing naturally

But this is very out of the context. If you think about it from the actor's point of view, then holocaust is much worse. Because it was intended, it was very .. systematic and had only one goal.

But with natives in NA, well, them Indians were also a problem adn they started to ask for some troubles. Then they got some troubles and now they cry how patriotic Americans came and fought. They're sore losers and casinos are too much, there's nothing to pay back. Why? They started the battles. No one owes them anything, and they didn't OWN the land either, so nothing was stolen from them.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Plenty of blame to spread around when it comes to the mass deaths of native Americans: Spaniards, Portuguese, British, Dutch, French, Disease, Natural casues etc.

Not so much when it comes to the Holocaust. That falls squarely on BeBro err... the Germans.

[EyesOfNight]

Here's an Idea, why dont you just kill yourself?

Says the guy that needed a pat on the back from his Apolyton "friends" so he could make sure that people still liked him. You're a total joke.

I'm glad though that you finally wiki'd the numbers.

[Spec]

Congratulations! You are my first ever on ignore!

I dont have time being bothered by people that argue like 12 year olds anyhow. I swear, talking to you is just like talking to my 13 year old neighbor. And I am dead serious.

Spec.

[Arrian]

The Holocaust, and it's not even close. Though the "colonization" of the Americas was pretty bad. The Incas in particular got it right in the ass. The 'tecs too, but they were taken down in part by peoples who they had oppressed, so there was at least a bit of karmic justice there.

-Arrian

[LordShiva]

Rwanda was pretty lame, too.

[Dinner]

The vast, vast, vast majority of native Americans who died did so without ever seeing a white man so it is hard to say the white man was conducting a mass killing.

[ískallin]

I dont know, it was pretty horrid stuff both ways. The indians were betrayed of every treaty, every promise that was ever given to them. They lost their land, their people, their customs, their religion, their way of life. Wounded Knee anyone?

Even so, I think the holocaust edges it in terms of pure malice and hate.

[Zkribbler]

About a week ago, I was watching a documentary on Stalin. Towards the end, it stated the Stalin was responsible for 27 million Soviet deaths....but it was unclear whether WWII casualties were included or just Stalin's purges.

Mao's purges were pretty bad too, as I recall.

I don't have time to research this...maybe later.

[Elok]

The Holocaust, definitely. It killed fewer people only because Hitler was stopped by force, and it had been going on for what, a decade?

Also, it was deliberate extermination. The end of the native Americans was plain callousness and greed. They happened to get in the way, so they were wiped out to get their land and resources. Or occasionally for slaves, or forced conversion. They were used and abused, but their deaths were largely incidental to Europe's bottom line. Whereas the Holocaust entailed death for its own sake, as "racial hygiene."

[Jaguar]

Holocaust.

The big difference is that the Conquest of America was basically a "we want your land so we will attack you" sort of deal. It's not a nice thing to do, but it's happened millions of times throughout history. The Holocaust was a massive and purposeless slaughter of civilians.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Spec
Here's an Idea, why dont you just kill yourself?

I did the research dimwit, so how about you do the same before talking out of your ass.

Many figures are only estimations, and from the sources that I have read, between 75 and 125 million indians died. And as for the percentage that died of diseases (The most devastating disease was smallpox, but other deadly diseases including typhus, measles, influenza, bubonic plague, mumps, yellow fever, and whooping cough. The Americas also had endemic diseases, perhaps including a type of syphilis, which soon became rampant in the Old World ) it ranges from 70 to 90%, so 80% (as I said) is a good average.

so lets take the smallest amount of people, 75 million, times 90% at the most equals to 7.5 million getting killed by conquistadors. Which is still more than the holocaust IMO.
Spec.

Exactly right... some have tried to minimize the massacre of the AmerIndians, but recent scholarship has pointed to around 100 million inhabitants of the Americas before the arrival of the Europeans.

But, it was done as a result of greed and malice as opposed to just pure malice. And some groups made the AmerIndians slaves that they worked to death instead of just loading them up and killing them.

Though the question was which was worst. I'm not sure that necessarily means which was worst in the intentions of the people who carried out the act. I see it as which was worst in terms of impact and thus I voted for the "Conquest of the Americas".

[Kuciwalker]

The Holocaust led to the creation of Israel, the most evil country in the world, thus it is the worst.

[kittenOFchaos]

The German Jews weren't sacrificing each other to the Gods, so probably the holocaust = glib answer.

Seriously, disease did the job to such an extent the Indian resistance pitiable compared to its potential. Without the disease aspect whilst subjugated the native american populations would not have been decimated and with time would have revived to the extent that you'd see tonnes of Native Americans at McDonalds.

[SlowwHand]

Where did the disease come from?