Grammar question

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


"This book is mine" more closely resembles
"This book is KrazyHorse's" than it does
"This book is red."

That is, you need a possessive pronoun much more than you need an adjective. Although you can say "This book is my" you have to rearrange the words so that they read, "This is my book."

I think you've managed to completely miss the point. Thanks for trying, though.

[Zkribbler]

Anytime

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Right, wrong.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Grammar question

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

This book is red

The word "red" in this example is an adjective, right?

So, if we wanted to remove the word "red" and replace it with something denoting ownership we would use the possessive adjective, no?

However, the possessive adjective for the first person singular in English is "my"

This book is my

is obviously wrong (though I don't know why)

Instead, we say

This book is mine

"Mine" is the first person singular possessive pronoun. In essence, in this example, it stands for "my book", so we are saying "This book is my book".

While this is fine, why can't I use the previous phrasing to denote possession?

There are possessive variants of pronouns. There aren't possessive variants of adjectives.

[Fake Boris]

MtG got it right.

In "my book", "my" is a possesive adjective.
In "the book is mine", "mine" is a pronominal adjective.

[Straybow]

Why are people acting like this is unique to the English language? German is the same. The genitive declension and the dative have the same form for some gender/numbers, but the grammar follows the same behavior as in English.

A pronoun is not an adjective.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Straybow
The genital declension and the dative have the same form for some gender

Shouldn't this be in the "Which is hotter?" thread?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
MtG got it right.

In "my book", "my" is a possesive adjective.
In "the book is mine", "mine" is a pronominal adjective.

But, if I understand what KH is complaining about, if he can say "the book is red" (ending in an adjective), why can't he say, "the book is my" (ending in an adjective).

Why oh why is he forced to use the possessive pronoun "mine."

[Barnabas]

My book/Mi libro

The book is mine/ El libro es mio

The same happens

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


I know I do. I don't know why I'm forced to, however.

"my" is much more strongly related to "red" than "mine" is to "red", yet in this case, the predicative adjective is replaced by the possessive pronoun and cannot be replaced by the possessive adjective.

That seems strange to me.

'The book is red'.

'Red' denotes a physical quality of the book. No ownership implied.

'My book' denotes ownership of the book. No physical qualities of the book suggested.

'My red book' denotes ownership of a book with a certain physical aspect.

'The book is mine' denotes your possession (and no one else's) of a book.

Why oh why is he forced to use the possessive pronoun "mine."

Because 'my' and 'mine' no longer always imply the same thing.

If he says in English 'The book is my' , it makes no sense. It does not definitively indicate property rights. It is incomplete.

'The book is my'- what ? Favourite ? Burden ? Teacher's ? School's ? Undoing ?

If he says 'the book is mine', in Modern English the sense is understood- he has settled the ownership problem, as it were.

I always recommend:

Fowler's 'Modern English Usage' and Fowler's 'The King's English' .

They address a multitude of sins and worries, with regards grammar, vocabulary, style and so on. They can seem slightly old-fashioned, but I like their style.

[Fake Boris]

The problem is not as complex.

Normal use of a possessive adjective is to attach it right to the noun whose meaning it precises.

A pronoun is meant to replace a person (1st, 2nd or 3rd, singular or plural).

As soon as you use a verb to convey a certain relationship between two words, especially when expressing property through a copulative verb ("to be"), usage has dictated that the object of this relationship shall be a noun.

In Latin, you would have "liber meus", but "liber mihi est" (and not "liber meus est"). That, perhaps is the origin of this distinction - property expressed through a copulative asks for an object. Logically, an adjective would work just as well, but this is just a specific turn of indo-european linguistics.

What happened, after Latin mixed in with Germanic languages, is that cases were dropped. Therefore, it became less clear that "mine" in "the book is mine" was an object, hence the distinction between pronouns and adjectives fading away in modern European languages.