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why are the Democrats/Congress idiots?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Admiral
    As to the matter at hand, have DC join Maryland (its on that side of the river), and make it a Congressional district. Its absurd that not one of DC's supposed 535 representatives is in any way responsible to DC.
    They all are. They live and work there.

    Comment

    • #47

      I mean why is VA preferable to MD.
      NoVA is basically suburban DC from what I understand. One of the chief proponents of this legislation is actually from the area, Tom Davis (R - VA). It doesn't much matter to me, though. Either state is fine.


      You misread my post. Respecting the Constitution is its own moral imperative (not the only one, but there is a value in complying with the Constitution independent of the particular value of the clause we're complying with).
      I was responding to your comment that you didn't really care if Wyoming was a territory. Implying that the moral imperative for representation mostly comes from a source other than popular sovereignty.

      When it comes to national policy there are so few people in DC that it's meaningless. DC is about .15% of our population.
      That's not true. One vote on a committee can sometimes be important (and Eleanor Holmes Norton would have a lot of seniority).

      I think we should pass a Constitutional Amendment denying Kuciwalker the right to vote. After all, he's only 3*10^-7% of the population.

      btw, PR pays FICA for SS despite having even less say in the national government than DC.
      Once again, FICA goes towards retirement insurance. It doesn't go towards the upkeep of the national gov't.
      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
      -Bokonon

      Comment

      • #48
        Originally posted by Ramo
        NoVA is basically suburban DC from what I understand. One of the chief proponents of this legislation is actually from the area, Tom Davis (R - VA). It doesn't much matter to me, though. Either state is fine.


        You are correct, but so is MD for a good radius outside of the District. Eh, just curious.

        I was responding to your comment that you didn't really care if Wyoming was a territory. Implying that the moral imperative for representation mostly comes from a source other than popular sovereignty.


        I wouldn't care if Wyoming was a territory because its population is so small it really doesn't matter - except the obvious benefit that they wouldn't have 2 Senators.

        That's not true. One vote on a committee can sometimes be important (and Eleanor Holmes Norton would have a lot of seniority).


        The DC delegate already has votes on committee.

        I think we should pass a Constitutional Amendment denying Kuciwalker the right to vote. After all, he's only 3*10^-7% of the population.


        That's obviously morally equivalent to opposing a fairly useless Constitutional amendment.

        Once again, FICA goes towards retirement insurance. It doesn't go towards the upkeep of the national gov't.
        Not the point. PR doesn't get to vote on the existance of SS.

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by Kuciwalker

          We already know you are an idiot. Don't dig yourself deeper.
          Grow up, already.

          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
          They all are. They live and work there.
          You really need to learn what representative government is. Or, you need to learn that we're in one. Either way, it doesn't matter if a congressman lives and works in DC. That doesn't make him responsible to the residents of DC. You assume that just because two people live in a large metropolitan area, they must share the same concerns. The only way a congressman can effectively represent an area is if in some way that area can effect his chances at reelection.
          "Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok

          Comment

          • #50
            I live and pay taxes in D.C. IMO, D.C. should have neither a representative nor senators. When I moved to DC, the city had neither of these, so I knew what the score was going in...

            On the merits of the question, D.C. is a special case specifically detailed in the constitution. I can only guess the reasons why the framers did not give the residents of D.C. voting rights. Mostly, I think that they didn't want the situation of the Roman Empire, where the offices of Rome were considered the highest, but they were in effect appointed by the political powers.

            If this is indeed the reason, the framers' wisdom has borne out. I can guarantee you that since the city is so small, it would be a "pocket borough" purchased by the old political guard. D.C.'s offices would be elevated in some measure above those of the states because of the fact that D.C. is the capital. Pretend for a moment that D.C.'s pocket senator became Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Cmte. and what that would mean for federal politics. He probably would be untouchable.

            Imagine Senator Ted Stevens from D.C.
            Last edited by DanS; March 17, 2007, 14:24.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

            Comment

            • #51

              You are correct, but so is MD for a good radius outside of the District. Eh, just curious.
              Dunno. DC's MD suburbs seem less important than the ones in VA. Just my impression.

              I wouldn't care if Wyoming was a territory because its population is so small it really doesn't matter - except the obvious benefit that they wouldn't have 2 Senators.
              How big can a disenfranchised population be until you do care?

              The DC delegate already has votes on committee.
              That's true. I forgot that the Dems reinstated that rule. Does that mean you support it? Since the same reasoning is involved wrt giving them a floor vote (through Constitutional means). One reason to give them a real House seat is that Gingrich took away DC's committee vote when he got control of the House; this rule is at the Speaker's discretion.

              Not the point. PR doesn't get to vote on the existance of SS.
              The point is that I do think PR should have representation in Congress. The best way to do that IMO is to make them a state. And I think the best way to give DC representation is to fold them into MD or VA.
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

              Comment

              • #52
                Mostly, I think that they didn't want the situation of the Roman Empire, where the offices of Rome were considered the highest, but they were in effect appointed by the political powers.
                Is the Mayor of DC "appointed by the political powers?"
                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                -Bokonon

                Comment

                • #53
                  Originally posted by Admiral
                  Grow up, already.
                  I've yet to hear a decent justification of this comment of yours:

                  So I'd rather have them give DC a seat illegitimately than have it not get a seat at all.


                  You seem to have backpedalled ("Obviously, the ony way to resolve this finally is an amendment") but you seem to lack the wit to see the obvious: this is a political stunt, not any genuine move to grant democratic representation to poor oppressed DC.

                  You really need to learn what representative government is. Or, you need to learn that we're in one. Either way, it doesn't matter if a congressman lives and works in DC. That doesn't make him responsible to the residents of DC. You assume that just because two people live in a large metropolitan area, they must share the same concerns. The only way a congressman can effectively represent an area is if in some way that area can effect his chances at reelection.
                  I can examine the consequences. DC gets enormous amounts of federal funding even aside from regular employees - funding for infrastructure, security, etc. It deserves that funding, certainly, because as the seat of government it needs those things. But it's needs are already well served by the Congress we have.

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Ramo
                    How big can a disenfranchised population be until you do care?
                    I don't have a hard number, but I can put a lower bound on yours: 3,913,055.

                    That's true. I forgot that the Dems reinstated that rule. Does that mean you support it? Since the same reasoning is involved wrt giving them a floor vote (through Constitutional means). One reason to give them a real House seat is that Gingrich took away DC's committee vote when he got control of the House; this rule is at the Speaker's discretion.


                    I think it's fairly silly, actually.

                    The point is that I do think PR should have representation in Congress. The best way to do that IMO is to make them a state.


                    A majority of them voted against it. Congress would make them a state if they voted for it. But DC can't be made a state; such a state would be too powerful. In the absense of that should PR get representatives in Congress?

                    And I think the best way to give DC representation is to fold them into MD or VA.


                    We don't want them. I don't know that MD does either. And it's fairly important that the federal government be able to control its own seat.

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ramo
                      Dunno. DC's MD suburbs seem less important than the ones in VA. Just my impression.em into MD or VA.
                      Actually a lot of the federal employees in VA work in VA. Has to do with some big office building on our side of the river they built during WWII.

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Ramo
                        Is the Mayor of DC "appointed by the political powers?"
                        He used to be. In either event, the mayor of D.C. is ultimately subservient to the wishes of the congress. He has no power over them. Believe me. His hat is always in hand.

                        The same wouldn't be true of a senator or congresscritter. Indeed, the senators and congresscritter would be much higher positions than city mayor, somewhat of a flip from the way things are now.
                        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Straybow
                          Originally posted by Ramo

                          Where do you expect hundreds of thousands of poor black people to go to?

                          For most, Maryland is just a mile or two away with no perceptible change in demographics.
                          Prince George's County is very similar in demographics...but it's currently led by one Jack Johnson, whose administration gets at least one new scandal story in the WaPo every two weeks. I'm not exaggerating, it's staggeringly corrupt even compared to the hideous corruption they had in PGC before he came along. He appoints friends to positions they're not qualified for, he gives huge chunks of money away to "concerns" with little or no oversight, he sells favors, you name it. And like I said, the government wasn't so clean before he came to power anyway. Whereas the DC government is at least trying to clean up its act, and Mayor Fenty appears more or less clean. And the rest of MD consists of the rich lily-white and the poor, chicken-farming lily-white. So you're in effect offering DC residents a choice between no Federal representation and the worst local government in the mid-atlantic region. Get real.

                          I'm assuming Kuci is trolling, or else ignorant of the situation in DC outside of the parts the Feds use. Or something like that.
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Tacc
                            If DC actually became a state, it would get around 16 electoral votes (and thus around 14 representatives).
                            "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                            Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              IMO the District of Columbia should be abolished and Washington, DC would become Washington, Maryland. The only exception would be the grounds of the White House, Capitol, and Supreme Court, which would continue to be under direct congressional control.

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Elok: that wasn't my post you responded to...

                                Odin: that's a terrible idea.

                                Comment

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