Calderon tells Bush Mexico needs more

[Arrian]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You could have asked. I did make a thread for that purpose after all.

1) Increased enforcement and penalties against people who employ illegal immigrants.

2) People who are here have to pay somesort of penalty for their illegal actions along the lines of the comprehensive bill that failed last year.

3) I would also set up somesort of a guest worker program to allow people to come over legally.

4) Increased border enforcement.

True, I could have. It slipped my mind at the time.

Your position is a tad harsher than mine (to the illegals), but ultimately the goal seems similiar. The devil is probably in the details (how many guest workers, etc).

I'd leave out the penalties.

Also, 5) more pressure on the Mexican government to get its **** together.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You could have asked. I did make a thread for that purpose after all.

1) Increased enforcement and penalties against people who employ illegal immigrants.

2) People who are here have to pay somesort of penalty for their illegal actions along the lines of the comprehensive bill that failed last year.

3) I would also set up somesort of a guest worker program to allow people to come over legally.

4) Increased border enforcement.

For what reasons?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'd leave out the penalties.

How would that be fair to the people who came over legally?

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Migration.

edit: of people (immigration)

So the people they aren't paying money to are going to be their stable consumer base.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian




I've made some assumptions in my time. But it's something I do try to avoid.

In this particular case, it's not just a matter of me not making assumptions about Sloww. I've read enough posts of his on this site about this issue to have come to my own (subjective, of course) opinion about whether or not he hates Mexicans. I don't think he does.

YMMV.

-Arrian

I'm immediately suspicious of people who say they oppose it because its illegal. Are you one of those people? I prefer the "they are taking our jobs" reason actually. I can grasp that one. It's believable to me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Whoha
So the people they aren't paying money to are going to be their stable consumer base.

Otherwise the consumer base is going to be reduced anyway due to demographics. As people age they spend quite a bit less money. Large families spend a lot.

[Whoha]

Where does the money they are spending come from? In other words, why aren't they spending it now?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Whoha
Where does the money they are spending come from? In other words, why aren't they spending it now?

I don't believe that spending will remain stable. I guess I should have made that clear. My point is that corporations see that immigration is a way to prevent too much reduction in the consumer base of the US. Betting that consumption will increase in places like China and India is pretty risky.

On the otherhand corporations can not support protectionist policies as a group because there is too much money to be made with globalization and they need to compete with the rest of the world.

[Whoha]

Ok, back to the original question, these people aren't paid well, some congress critters went down there and noted that one of the auto-makers had built a state of the art factory, it had everything, except a parking lot as its workers couldn't afford to buy the products they made. Where is the money that they are going to spend going to come from?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Whoha
Ok, back to the original question, these people aren't paid well, some congress critters went down there and noted that one of the auto-makers had built a state of the art factory, it had everything, except a parking lot as its workers couldn't afford to buy the products they made.. Where is the money that they are going to spend going to come from?

I'm playing devils advocate since I don't really believe that wages will increase, but for the world economy to remain stable wages are going to have to increase in the developing world. Right now consumption in the US is supported by savers in other countries investing here. This supports our stock markets and housing market. When the value of peoples assets increases they spend more.

After spending in the US decreases those savers are going to have to go somewhere else because interest rates are going to fall here. That will support asset prices elsewhere which will increase spending, but only so long as wages and jobs can be maintianed. The transition will happen for sure, but how rough it will be is tough to say. I think it will be pretty rough, but people tend to disagree with me.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How would that be fair to the people who came over legally?

Meh. If I got the sense that legal immigrants were really upset about such unfairness, perhaps I'd care more. But I don't get that sense. Maybe I've just not heard about it...

Technically it's not fair, no. But then lots of things are unfair. We're talking about trying to take something that is badly broken and make it vaguely functional. Given that, I'm not going to get worked up about the unfairness you're talking about.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I'm immediately suspicious of people who say they oppose it because its illegal. Are you one of those people? I prefer the "they are taking our jobs" reason actually. I can grasp that one. It's believable to me.

Do you read my posts? I thought I spelled out my position clearly.

I'm for increasing the number we allow in legally, giving an amnesty on those who are already here, and also working out some sort of work visa/permit plan. Basically, I just want them on the grid.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


Do you read my posts? I thought I spelled out my position clearly.

I'm for increasing the number we allow in legally, giving an amnesty on those who are already here, and also working out some sort of work visa/permit plan. Basically, I just want them on the grid.

-Arrian

Sorry, my bad.

[Arrian]

No prob.

-Arrian

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Arrian
Technically it's not fair, no.

We already tried blanket amnesty. It failed and only encouraged more illegal immigration. I fail to see why it would work this time. BTW, how would it only be technically unfair to people who came over legally as opposed to blatantly unfair?