Conscience and Consciousness

[MrFun]

Since both of these are intrinsic to the nature of being human, these are natural rights rather than civil rights, correct?

No one has any right to deprive of another person their right to their conscience and consciousness with the exception of criminals. They are to be imprisoned in violation of their free will for the safey of others.

Or, are there other situations or circumstances where one can deny another their right to conscience or consciousness with plausible moral and/or legal justification?

[SlowwHand]

Are you saying that a criminal that say he has no concious memory of the act is Not Guilty?
I would need to be thoroughly convinced.

[snoopy369]

Okay, I have to ask. What are you on, MrFun?

"Conscience" is not a right and not something you can be denied (without some sort of weird psychological intervention that's impossible at the current time). It's also certainly not something we'd want to deny criminals, given that Conscience is the inner impulse which keeps you from doing things that damage others...

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Conscience and Consciousness

Originally posted by MrFun
Since both of these are intrinsic to the nature of being human

The former is obviously false, and the latter arguably so.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Okay, I have to ask. What are you on, MrFun?

"Conscience" is not a right and not something you can be denied (without some sort of weird psychological intervention that's impossible at the current time). It's also certainly not something we'd want to deny criminals, given that Conscience is the inner impulse which keeps you from doing things that damage others...

Denying someone's conscience doesn't mean denying them the "inner impulse which keeps you from doing things that damage others," it refers to freedom of thought (particularly moral/religious thought). That thought could be as much "help poor people" as "kill the jews."

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Are you saying that a criminal that say he has no concious memory of the act is Not Guilty?
I would need to be thoroughly convinced.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

[snoopy369]

For that matter how do we deny criminals consciousness? We deny a very few life, but I'd suggest that Life is more of an intrinsic right than Consciousness, and thus the statement "we deny criminals consciousness" has no argumentative value, despite occasionally being true.

[Solly]

What sort of gay thread is this, like wtf Fun?

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Conscience and Consciousness

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


The former is obviously false, and the latter arguably so.

So other animals have those characteristics as well. The fact that these are not unique only to humans does not mean that they are not part of our state of being.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Denying someone's conscience doesn't mean denying them the "inner impulse which keeps you from doing things that damage others," it refers to freedom of thought (particularly moral/religious thought). That thought could be as much "help poor people" as "kill the jews."

That doesn't compute for me. If you mean denying freedom of thought, then say so. Conscience is not something that can be denied (at least at our current technological level) and if philosophers use the word that way, they're misusing it in my opinion.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Re: Re: Conscience and Consciousness

Originally posted by MrFun
So other animals have those characteristics as well. The fact that these are not unique only to humans does not mean that they are not part of our state of being.

You misunderstand my objection.

[MrFun]

Note also, I used the words "deprive right to conscience" and not "deprive conscience" in the OP.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by snoopy369
That doesn't compute for me. If you mean denying freedom of thought, then say so.

They are the same thing.

[MrFun]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Conscience and Consciousness

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


You misunderstand my objection.

Oh, well explain then.

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Conscience and Consciousness

Originally posted by MrFun
Oh, well explain then.

There are humans without consciences. (Though, that isn't precisely what freedom of conscience refers to.)

There are arguably humans without consciousness, too.