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Don't mention the polar bears, Bush tells US scientists

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

    Not proven AFAIK. Of the 19 groups of polar bears, 5 are declining 14 are either increasing, stable, or unknown.

    Reference Drake's Article which is more recent then the Discovery article and embodies the same alarmist 2004 examples.
    OK, I did, and to be more precise, it says: Of the 19 separate polar populations, five are declining, two are increasing, five are stable, and there is insufficient data for seven more, according to the Polar Bear Specialist Group, a team of scientists dedicated to preserving the bears.

    The Discovery Article simply attempts to give the false impression that Polar Bears are going the way of the Dodo when they specifically speak to a given group, namely the Beaufort Sea bears. They pose statistics and then immediately discredit them by saying the numbers are in question due a different tallying methodology.
    I wouldn't say they discredit them. According to the abstract, previous methods were less precise, so they cannot say there's a statistical difference between past and current numbers. However, lower skull & weight measurements and lower cub survival are precursors of population decline (at least if you go by what happened at Hudson Bay).

    U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY
    Open-File Report 2006-1337

    Polar Bear Population Status in the Southern Beaufort Sea


    By Eric V. Regehr and Steven C. Amstrup, U.S. Geological Survey; and Ian Stirling, Canadian Wildlife Service
    Abstract

    Polar bears depend entirely on sea ice for survival. In recent years, a warming climate has caused major changes in the Arctic sea ice environment, leading to concerns regarding the status of polar bear populations. Here we present findings from long-term studies of polar bears in the southern Beaufort Sea (SBS) region of the U.S. and Canada, which are relevant to these concerns. We applied open population capture-recapture models to data collected from 2001 to 2006, and estimated there were 1,526 (95% CI = 1,211; 1,841) polar bears in the SBS region in 2006. The number of polar bears in this region was previously estimated to be approximately 1,800. Because precision of earlier estimates was low, our current estimate of population size and the earlier ones cannot be statistically differentiated. For the 2001–06 period, the best fitting capture-recapture model provided estimates of total apparent survival of 0.43 for cubs of the year (COYs), and 0.92 for all polar bears older than COYs. Because the survival rates for older polar bears included multiple sex and age strata, they could not be compared to previous estimates. Survival rates for COYs, however, were significantly lower than estimates derived in earlier studies (P = 0.03). The lower survival of COYs was corroborated by a comparison of the number of COYs per adult female for periods before (1967–89) and after (1990–2006) the winter of 1989–90, when warming temperatures and altered atmospheric circulation caused an abrupt change in sea ice conditions in the Arctic basin. In the latter period, there were significantly more COYs per adult female in the spring (P = 0.02), and significantly fewer COYs per adult female in the autumn (P < 0.001). Apparently, cub production was higher in the latter period, but fewer cubs survived beyond the first 6 months of life. Parallel with declining survival, skull measurements suggested that COYs captured from 1990 to 2006 were smaller than those captured before 1990. Similarly, both skull measurements and body weights suggested that adult males captured from 1990 to 2006 were smaller than those captured before 1990. The smaller stature of males was especially notable because it corresponded with a higher mean age of adult males. Male polar bears continue to grow into their teens, and if adequately nourished, the older males captured in the latter period should have been larger than those captured earlier. In western Hudson Bay, Canada, a significant decline in population size was preceded by observed declines in cub survival and physical stature. The evidence of declining recruitment and body size reported here, therefore, suggests vigilance regarding the future of polar bears in the SBS region.

    So the US can affect the global population of polar bears only in the global sense of reducing emissions, etc, to try to reduce global warming, but as far as specific actions, like declaring polar bears threatened or endangered, that's only for local populations, right? So I still don't understand why you bring up how well the global population is doing.
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
    Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
    One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

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    • #92
      Because there are 2 US populations. Only one (the Southern Beaufort group) showed any population decline and the count methodology was different. Not compelling evidence at this point.
      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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      • #93
        Counting methodology is better now, and when you add in the reduced size measurments, smaller litters, autopsies showing bears starved to death, and ever retreating Arctic sea ice, that's compelling, IMO.
        Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
        Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
        One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

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        • #94
          It doesn't matter that counting is better now if one can't trust the original numbers one can't determine a net gain or loss. While the other details may indicate a rocky future for the Southern Beaufort Bears (sounds like a Hockey team) its anecdotal at best. Further its only one US group.
          "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

          “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Lancer
            Damn polar bears will rip you to shreds and eat you without pity or remorse. I say we put them to sleep with those drugs they shoot from guns, then load them into trebushes (sp), and just when they wake up, throw them.
            Trebushet?
            Long time member @ Apolyton
            Civilization player since the dawn of time

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            • #96
              Trebuchet...
              KH FOR OWNER!
              ASHER FOR CEO!!
              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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              • #97
                ****in Drake's a frog now.

                Who's next?
                (\__/)
                (='.'=)
                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by DinoDoc
                  Wait a minute? The bears aren't even in danger and Oerdin is still whining?

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                  • #99
                    ****in Drake's a frog now.


                    I thought you already knew that...
                    KH FOR OWNER!
                    ASHER FOR CEO!!
                    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                    • Originally posted by notyoueither
                      ****in Drake's a frog now.
                      Not until he changes his avvie to Picard...

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                      • I'm French, not a ****ing *****...
                        KH FOR OWNER!
                        ASHER FOR CEO!!
                        GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                        • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                          ****in Drake's a frog now.


                          I thought you already knew that...
                          There's trolling and then there's truth.

                          You're tipping the truthiness scales as a frog. KH doesn't even do that.
                          (\__/)
                          (='.'=)
                          (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                          • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                            I'm French, not a ****ing *****...
                            I saw "Changeling" today. Kirk

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                            • You're tipping the truthiness scales as a frog. KH doesn't even do that.


                              Nothing wrong with being French.
                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
                              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                              • Aside from having to be French. That and most of them have to put up with other French people.

                                I can see why you feel it would be cool to be French in isolation. All annoying, and no being annoyed.
                                (\__/)
                                (='.'=)
                                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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