Copenhagen part 3

[ZEE]

Originally posted by Pekka
yeah well.. it doesn't really matter if you can cope with what you have. You can't be really strong unless you know yourself.

EXACTLY... KNOWING yourself! now you are hitting the nail on the head... PEKKA. I know myself VERY well. i have suffered more in my lifetime than others will in 2 or 3. Pain is the ultimate wake up call PEKKA... it is the ultimate balancing factor in the universe that makes us mortal. it is the thing that gives you character. it is the thing that keeps you moving foreward. it is the thing that kicks you in the ass and says... MOVE IT DIMWIT!! it is the true expression of nature. it is the thing ... PEKKA... that makes us... who we ARE

hahahahahahaha

thats some real ****...
PIECE

[ZEE]

Originally posted by laurentius


AAHZ

Very respectable. If you really can live by the code. The Christ' way is the way...

thank you laurentius. i try

[BlackCat]

Yup, just delve into the abyss of supersticiousness - that really helps

[ZEE]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Yup, just delve into the abyss of supersticiousness - that really helps

Its the very thing i embrace, even when im trying NOT to. i could actually FORGET how to... and still end up doing it. i could be sleeping and STILL do it... sometimes i FIGHT it... and i delve right back into it again.

[laurentius]

So do you ever wake up not being really sure what has happened IRL and what has happened only in your dreams?

[ZEE]

Originally posted by laurentius
So do you ever wake up not being really sure what has happened IRL and what has happened only in your dreams?

only if im:

1- very angry
2- VERY drunk

there are moments i dont remember at all... some moments couldve been a dream... but ive stabalized quite a bit now. im more normal now thanks to treatment... which is ALSO a thing that has killed my imagination and creativity. Im not what i used to be... nor do i really wish i COULD be... again

[laurentius]

I know what your are talking there dude. The drugs can really kill people off. The same people that used to be deepgoing, profound and intelligent are reduced to shallow mindless crap.

I got to tell you I sometimes have so vivid dreams I'm not really sure what real and whats not after I wake up. For example I might have met up one of my friends and talked to him about something only to later discover it has only happened in my subjective dream.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
And here's the part that really gets me. I know, no one asked, but I'm still going to say it.

As I've stated, humans are fairly simple beings, predictable and monotonous, as the world around us is projected from the participants, in this case humans mostly and we understand it through these concepts.

Now, what really gets me is that the nature in itself is more complex. Nature should be less complex. But this isn't the case, we do understand it, or a bit of it, or even a great deal, but we still can not appreciate the complexity in it. We think humans are so complex, and nature is not. I think the exact opposite. The nature is very complex, humans are not. We're just little ants, inhabiting this place for a while. We'll be gone some day as well.

So, as people try to predict nature, and I'm not talking about global warming, but in general.. we're pretty good at that. Or how good are we, can't really tell. But from our point of view and with our measurements, we're pretty good at the basic interpretation of it, at least in our terms.

So why can't we understand ourselves then? If we are more simple, why can't we understand it? It would be logical to determine that perhaps we are more complex then but I disagree with that notion. It's like... you think the things you thought as a kid, you thought oyu knew so much, and now you take that and think well that was ****ing stupid. So, you add a new layer to your knowledge and your perception changes with every new layer.. you gain more depth. So as you are piling up the layers with more experince and knowledge, you're going in cycles, right?

An example, I go from 'war is uncivilized' into 'war is very civilized'. Depends what layer I have added lately. It's a cycle. From the very raw poitn of view, war is pure. It's real, it's something that has truth effects. Then you add another layer, well, war is still ugly and the resort of idiots. And then you add another one and then another one, the nature of the concept changes from one to another.

Bigger frameworks have little less of a shift but individual concepts can be very polarized. So you figure how the hell do you know which is which, you can take either side and convince yourself both of them. I mean, humans have become pussies, really. In most of the 1st world countries, we are pussies. Someone killing a chicken for food makes us sick. What the hell is that? These are basic things, what, we are out of touch from the reality so much we can't cope with it? Animals fighting each other and we like hate some of these animals for it? So common sense, we have become pussies, some of us. Is that civil? When we become too civil, the edge of dropping into total chaos is near, because we have disarmed our natural instincts from ourselves. Kind of like Rome, but with other terms.

So the point is, it goes in cycles, depends what layer is on top. So what I try to avoid doing is .. I don't want to find a formula of people. From nature, sure. But if humans are less complex, I should be able to find that formula in the network that humans form. But that formula is bound to fail, as it has to change all the time. So I have to ask myself, do we really know much at all? Or do we just try to understand the current situation with the tools we have, and is that reality? What is reality to an ant? It differs from our reality. We just go in cycles, trying to claim to know stuff, but we don't know anything. So you have to distance yourself from it, because if you try to think you know, you're either wrong or in road to madness.

Perhaps truth is a contradiction and you are just spinning your wheels. Wouldn't it be different in every situation? You are trying to find universal principles that may not exist.

[ZEE]

Originally posted by laurentius
I know what your are talking there dude. The drugs can really kill people off. The same people that used to be deepgoing, profound and intelligent are reduced to shallow mindless crap.

I got to tell you I sometimes have so vivid dreams I'm not really sure what real and whats not after I wake up. For example I might have met up one of my friends and talked to him about something only to later discover it has only happened in my subjective dream.

ive taken these damn pills for so long... a part of me HAS died. Perhaps ive been reduced to shallow mindless crap... but underneith all the dung... is a little original spark of myself. A little piece of purity among all the crap that they did to my brain. in an effort to make me normal... they in fact, RUINED me. But there is a little piece of me left, fighting to stay alive. i feel it when i type, or when i play civ, or i have a deep conversation, i feel like my old self again

i know what you mean. i had a terrifying experience one time where i seriously do not remember ANYTHING that happened. And even stranger... the people that WERE there wont TELL me what happened. they blow it off, but i KNOW how crazy i must have been that night. how deeply INSANE my diseased mind actually was. the pills helped me. i will tell ANYBODY to take the pills to better their life. but they HAVE to know that it will change them... FOREVER

[Pekka]

Kid, possibly. I'm trying to avoid trying to find any universal principles or bigger frameworks. Because and I quote myself,
"So you have to distance yourself from it, because if you try to think you know, you're either wrong or in road to madness."

[laurentius]

Originally posted by AAHZ


ive taken these damn pills for so long... a part of me HAS died. Perhaps ive been reduced to shallow mindless crap... but underneith all the dung... is a little original spark of myself. A little piece of purity among all the crap that they did to my brain. in an effort to make me normal... they in fact, RUINED me. But there is a little piece of me left, fighting to stay alive. i feel it when i type, or when i play civ, or i have a deep conversation, i feel like my old self again

i know what you mean. i had a terrifying experience one time where i seriously do not remember ANYTHING that happened. And even stranger... the people that WERE there wont TELL me what happened. they blow it off, but i KNOW how crazy i must have been that night. how deeply INSANE my diseased mind actually was. the pills helped me. i will tell ANYBODY to take the pills to better their life. but they HAVE to know that it will change them... FOREVER

Yeah well its great if theres a way for your real self to pop up. I've never gone over the edge, but I've been close. its kinda exciting but I was very very very drunk that nigh and there are some really weird things that really happened. My friend and I winded up boozing with this cognac bottle I had. We hanged around the neighbourhood we both had grown up in which happens to be the most central and heavily guarded in Finland. So in some point these civilian clad cops started to check us out posing as taxi drivers. Now boozing outdoors is outlawed in Finland but we though they really were taxi drivers so we were really friendly to them and encouraged them to booze with us so the police just told us to have a good one and drove off. Thats not suppose to happen, you are supposed to get your ass thrown in jail... and later when to bottle was almost empty I started to see things from the other side, thats when I went home but for those 10 minutes I was at the edge of paranoia. My friend later told me that it was like one of those David Flynch movies where things just go insane and I was so convincing with my "cant you hear them laughing at us" rant that he almost panicked himself too. That was 5 months ago. Quite an experience. I think maybe I've broken something inside.

Good times

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Pekka
Kid, possibly. I'm trying to avoid trying to find any universal principles or bigger frameworks. Because and I quote myself,
"So you have to distance yourself from it, because if you try to think you know, you're either wrong or in road to madness."

Thinking can be enjoyable, but sometimes we can lock onto stuff, if you know what I mean, when the answer is really not that important, we only make it out to be that important. Some people call it making mountains out of mole hills.

Go do something fun and forget about it.

[ZEE]

Originally posted by laurentius


Yeah well its great if theres a way for your real self to pop up. I've never gone over the edge, but I've been close. its kinda exciting but I was very very very drunk that nigh and there are some really weird things that really happened. My friend and I winded up boozing with this cognac bottle I had. We hanged around the neighbourhood we both had grown up in which happens to be the most central and heavily guarded in Finland. So in some point these civilian clad cops started to check us out posing as taxi drivers. Now boozing outdoors is outlawed in Finland but we though they really were taxi drivers so we were really friendly to them and encouraged them to booze with us so the police just told us to have a good one and drove off. Thats not suppose to happen, you are supposed to get your ass thrown in jail... and later when to bottle was almost empty I started to see things from the other side, thats when I went home but for those 10 minutes I was at the edge of paranoia. My friend later told me that it was like one of those David Flynch movies where things just go insane and I was so convincing with my "cant you hear them laughing at us" rant that he almost panicked himself too. That was 5 months ago. Quite an experience. I think maybe I've broken something inside.

Good times

funny you should mention paranoia... thats the thing that plagues me at almost every angle and turn in my life. i understand your story completely.... and in those 10 minutes that you felt paranoia... i feel ALL the time in my life... in fact thats ONE thing my pills HAVENT been able to fix or help very well. But we all have problems, Pekka just got me going on a tangent here. I totally respect you, laurentius, and will be here to help if u need me to. ive BEEN THERE

Im going to play a little civ now... the same game i posted on Apolyton University earlier... and I CHALLENGED people to beat it like im going to try to. ~shameless plug~


take care yall... ill bbl...
PIECE

[Kidlicious]

Anybody ever have panic attacks. I had those once. I was going crazy when I was married, because my wife was a pretty crazy drug addict and a real narcisistic *****.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by AAHZ


funny you should mention paranoia... thats the thing that plagues me at almost every angle and turn in my life. i understand your story completely.... and in those 10 minutes that you felt paranoia... i feel ALL the time in my life... in fact thats ONE thing my pills HAVENT been able to fix or help very well. But we all have problems, Pekka just got me going on a tangent here. I totally respect you, laurentius, and will be here to help if u need me to. ive BEEN THERE

Im going to play a little civ now... the same game i posted on Apolyton University earlier... and I CHALLENGED people to beat it like im going to try to. ~shameless plug~


take care yall... ill bbl...
PIECE

Haha okay AAHZ you go play civ. I just finished a 7 hour long session of the "Twilight of hte Byzantium" on Civ 3. A fantastic scenario. Just came back online because I'm afraid for my friend. I hope he is allright. He has gone through some real rough times and I havent heard him in a while, he doesnt even react to to my sms.

I respect you for going through some of those things in your life. But yeah I know the feeling and I thank the God I dont have to go through something like that all the time. To suspect everything and value all my feelings on some arbitrary meter or map the "sane" would have made for me. I guess you cant really achieve independence if you cant convince other people of you sanity.