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Originally posted by DinoDoc
That does really answer the question. Why should other peoples have been made to pay the price for the shame of Europe?
Why would someone view the establishment of Israel in 1948 only in the context of the holocaust, and ignore the history of the League mandate, the Balfour declaration, the building of a Jewish society in Palestine, and the historical claim that the world recognized in 1919?
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by DinoDoc
This post /= what Oerdin said which is what I pointed out. They were neither arrested or punished.
They werent arrested, cause there wasnt adequate evidence to make a case.
You think everytime a group of civilians are killed during a war, and a claim is made of a massacre, the accused should be arrested? If so I suggest there are more pressing matters that could occupy you now, from Afghanistan to Iraq, rather than one incident from 60 years ago.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by DinoDoc
That does really answer the question. Why should other peoples have been made to pay the price for the shame of Europe?
Had the Pals accepted partition, they would have gotten an independent state, and the chance to develop it in peace. They paid the price for their unwillingness to compromise, and for the military aggression of the Arab League.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by lord of the mark
You think everytime a group of civilians are killed during a war, and a claim is made of a massacre, the accused should be arrested?
Let's be honest, LotM. This isn't the only attack Irgun and Lehi terrorist groups were responsible for. And yes, I do tend to believe that war crimes should at the very least be investigated at least if one wants to claim the moral high ground. I thought you were the one for truth telling even against the claim of facing more pressing concerns.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Let's be honest, LotM. This isn't the only attack Irgun and Lehi terrorist groups were responsible for. And yes, I do tend to believe that war crimes should at the very least be investigated at least if one wants to claim the moral high ground. I thought you were the one for truth telling even against the claim of facing more pressing concerns.
It was the only alledged massacre of civilians. I dont see the point of confusing Deir Yassin with other incidents, not directed against civilians, and done when British authority, not Haganah authority, was in power.
And I have no objection to truth telling. You dont need a formal investigation to tell the truth. And Im not even sure there was no investigation. But you didnt speak about an investigation, but an arrest, and now seem to have changed your mind.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I thought you were the one for truth telling even against the claim of facing more pressing concerns.
Are you? Or are you just trolling?
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
But you didnt speak about an investigation, but an arrest, and now seem to have changed your mind.
One tends to follow the other.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Indeed if everyone were willing to just say that both peoples have inherited the land, the Jews from their origin there, and the Pals from their rights of adverse possesion, and both have claims, and the land should be partitioned on that basis, thered be no issue.
Is this your actual point of view or a point of argument?
This is not something I've heard from many Jewish people and it strikes me as incongruant.
Tom P.
BTW I've often seen you, and other Jewish, refer to the people as "Jews". I was always taught that was demeaning, or is that not the case anymore? Just want to know what's acceptable, no need to disrepect.
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Are you? Or are you just trolling?
A question for my general opinion on the matter? I generally feel that the creation of the state of Israel was a mistake that shouldn't have been made. The costs of undoing that mistake now would only serve to compound the original one and the only real solution now is for somesort of a fair comprimise to be found now rather than continuing a seemingly endless cycle of violence. So in summation, the answer to the trolling question is a little from column A and a little from column B.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
But you didnt speak about an investigation, but an arrest, and now seem to have changed your mind.
One tends to follow the other.
some quick googling shows that the incident occured while the British were still in power. The Brits did investigate, though the Irgun did not accept the results, and alleged the investigation was biased.
The new Israeli state had no obligation, IMO, to investigate an incident that occured before its founding. They made the political determination to disarm the Irgun, and that was enough.
I would note that I have never blamed the post war Turkish republic for not launching an investigation of incidents (of a much larger scale, I might add) that occurred during the Ottoman era.
Im not sure what your point is.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by DinoDoc
A question for my general opinion on the matter? I generally feel that the creation of the state of Israel was a mistake that shouldn't have been made. The costs of undoing that mistake now would only serve to compound the original one and the only real solution now is for somesort of a fair comprimise to be found now rather than continuing a seemingly endless cycle of violence. So in summation, the answer to the trolling question is a little from column A and a little from column B.
No I was asking for your opinion on the importance of proclaiming historic truth. Which you seemed to think was not a good idea in the case of Armenia, and IIRC, in the case of Virginia. But you seem to think is more urgent wrt Israel.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Is this your actual point of view or a point of argument?
This is not something I've heard from many Jewish people and it strikes me as incongruant.
Tom P.
BTW I've often seen you, and other Jewish, refer to the people as "Jews". I was always taught that was demeaning, or is that not the case anymore? Just want to know what's acceptable, no need to disrepect.
I believe both sides have some claim to the land, yes. I suggest that if you spent more time listening to dovish (NOT anti-Zionist) Jews youd hear it more.
I would suggest though that assertions that the Jewish claim is not at all legitimate tend to be met with defensive answers, and an attempt to make the maximal case, which includes denying any claim. My own sense is that in discussions of this, esp in internet forums, acknowledgement of part of the other guys case is quickly used as a weapon against ones own position.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by lord of the mark
No I was asking for your opinion on the importance of proclaiming historic truth.
It should have been done after the 48 war IMO. Irgun and Lehi should have been put on trial for their war crimes at the earliest opportunity either by Israel or any other interested party. I don't care so much now since all the people who would have been involved in the acts seem to have died.
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Why would someone view the establishment of Israel in 1948 only in the context of the holocaust, and ignore the history of the League mandate, the Balfour declaration, the building of a Jewish society in Palestine, and the historical claim that the world recognized in 1919?
This is an attempt to agree:
It's like thinking the liberation of India was brought about by the actions of WWII alone and no amount of freedom fighting was done before-hand.
WWII inturupted quite a few things that were going on at the time. Not the least of which were the freedom of India and the establishment of a Jewish nation-state.
Is this your actual point of view or a point of argument?
This is not something I've heard from many Jewish people and it strikes me as incongruant.
Tom P.
BTW I've often seen you, and other Jewish, refer to the people as "Jews". I was always taught that was demeaning, or is that not the case anymore? Just want to know what's acceptable, no need to disrepect.
Er, it depends on context.
Im not sure what youre referring to specifically here. If Im discussing Jews in general, or Jews in Russia, of course its proper to use "Jews" (once upon a time some folks prefered euphemisms like Hebrews, but thats long past) If im referring to Israelis, I say Israelis, or when more speficity is required, Israel Jews.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
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