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  • Out of state control

    I find the idea interesting, that a man could have total freedom. That would mean no state control what so ever on the man. I'm not talking about 'OK SO YOU WANT MURDER TO BGE LEGAL?"!#=", well, please go ahead and complete the aneurysm.

    It is fair, since you can always denounce your citizenship, so it's not like YOUR state is oppressing you in this case. It's just that there are no states that would allow things like complete anonymity. Can you imagine it? Complete anonymity. I'm not in your system, I don't have an SSN, I don't even exist. OR, perhaps a better way is to have a system like the Swiss bank. I have a code and they have a code. We have a way of synchronizing and doing a handshake that we both recognize to be legit parties. I, as a member of this state, and the state verifies me as it's legal, anonymous citizen.

    As long as I'm born into a state the registers me after 5 minutes I just got here, to life, I'll never reach the anonymity and freedom. Of course, we could always clean those records, so it's not like ... a damage that can never be undone. It can be undone, it just won't be undone.

    Even outside the states databases and records, I still have things that binds me to my state identity. I can't live without it, I can't get a house, I can't get anything. Except if I buy everything straight cash, and even that is traceable, but in practice, it's pretty anonymous.

    Of course this is not what we commonly think as oppressive, but in another notion I'd like to wonder why we, as humans, are born into systems and not outside of them, and later on choose to join or not. Please, don't take this into 'well you'd be out of safety nets the state provides' and other boring details. That's not the idea.

    And we'll never truly be free when we are inducted into mandatory schooling, an education that simply teaches the issues of our discourse, but who is to say that discourse is important? Or relevant? It teaches you how to function in the very system you are trapped into, or a member, however you'd like to think. Yes, I can always denounce myself from that system, but I can't move into another system that would accept the option of complete freedom, as in no state control what so ever. This is not exactly anarchism though.

    I'd like to see a state, an experimental one at least, or a country within a country, that would allow those privilidges. You choose what you let others know about you. You choose what you want to do. You choose everything for yourself, everything. Because at the end of the day, your options will be limited by the standards of the state, it's not like you can just say 'swipe that record away, become unaware of my existance, please'. And to the point, if you don't have that option, the state owns your ass. Which it does, unless you resign. Then again, it is fair deal, you are a member and your passport or whatever state identity is your silent acceptance of that fact. If you disagree with it, you can always denounce it and resign. But you have no options, because the other states are the same in this regard.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    thats some scary **** Pekka, and for the first time EVER i have to disagree with you...

    that kind of system will spiral out of control so fast, that it will leave skid marks on the ass of the Earth...

    Sounds like some Cyberpunk **** actually
    Order of the Fly
    Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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    • #3
      Why don't you pack a bag and go hiking all by yourself out in some remote mountain range for about a month. Then come back and tell us about your thoughts.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • #4
        I have thanks
        Order of the Fly
        Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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        • #5
          I meant Pekka, but no we know something about you. Thank you.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment


          • #6
            kid...

            i have nothing to hide and you're quite welcome...
            Order of the Fly
            Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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            • #7
              Err... I wasn't accusing you of hiding anything. Now we know something else about you.
              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

              Comment


              • #8


                you ARE quite the sniper arent you Kid... BRAVO!

                i AM getting old and foolish i guess...

                BTW now you know something ELSE about me...
                Order of the Fly
                Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

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                • #9
                  I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                  - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    anyway Pekka, i think your "out of state control" is a Cyberpunk-esk free anarchy type society. and violence will be so rampant your government cant possibly contain it. people are greedy by nature Pekka... and GREED will sink that ship in a heartbeat...
                    Order of the Fly
                    Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pekka,

                      Do you really think the bathrooms will be stocked in your society? I think not.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well, it's not exactly a very well functioning society, because it wasn't meant to be one. Most people find it weird, because they can't live without their given identity and safety nets.

                        But just because YOU need one doesn't mean everyone needs one, and it shouldn't be to your disadvantage if others had the option to leave to such area.

                        I'm nto even talking about banning criminal laws, such that have to do with personal safety. As in, it still could be illegal to beat people up etc.

                        If it worked like a Swiss bank, it would just mean we don't have information on you, UNLESS you start breaking laws and you are arrested. You convict the member, who has encrypted ID, and if the member should be found guilty, they could be convicted. Or better yet, deported.

                        And I'm not talking about general anarchism here, the laws are not the concern, but anonymity. There's no need to abolish criminal laws in order to provide anonymity. In fact, I said in the first paragraph about the MURDER LEAGL OMG111 Look beyond the first thought.

                        It is clear to me none of you gave any time to analyze this picture, because of the answer I already nullified and which is the normal answer.
                        In da butt.
                        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And the cyberpunk image is pretty much deserved here, but usually the dystopic setting in cyberpunk literature derives from complete state control. And then the heroes break out of that to complete freedom.
                          In da butt.
                          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pekka
                            And the cyberpunk image is pretty much deserved here, but usually the dystopic setting in cyberpunk literature derives from complete state control. And then the heroes break out of that to complete freedom.
                            what novels are YOU talking about? ALL the ones i know DO have a center of govt of some sort, usually in a big city... but the suburbs and countryside are so lawless that no normal person without a sword for an arm an a cannon coming out of his ass would survive
                            Order of the Fly
                            Those that cannot curse, cannot heal.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I read the good stuff.
                              In da butt.
                              "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                              THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                              "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                              Comment

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