Canadians to get Leopard 2s?

[BeBMan]

So Canadians get the best MBT now....*hides*

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by BeBro
So Canadians get the best MBT now....*hides*

Well, it's the 2A4, not the 2A6...so no.

[Drake Tungsten]

Wheeled vehicles cannot roll through the marijuana forests that the Taliban hides in.

Finally, a plausible answer...

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Finally, a plausible answer...

I bet you weren't expecting that, were ya?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Lonestar


I bet you weren't expecting that, were ya?

Shocking!!!

But I though the fact that the LAVs don't protect well against RPGs is anotehr good reason for heavier armour

[Spec]

And we should care because?

Even if we buy like 5, whats the difference gonna be?

Besides, why do we need an army, lets the US spend the money for us. And if they decide to invade us, the rest of the planet will help us. Everyone likes Canada. We are like the little school boy that everyone has pity for and defends him against bullies because we make your homework for you.



Spec.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Spec
And we should care because?

Even if we buy like 5, whats the difference gonna be?

Besides, why do we need an army, lets the US spend the money for us. And if they decide to invade us, the rest of the planet will help us. Everyone likes Canada. We are like the little school boy that everyone has pity for and defends him against bullies because we make your homework for you.



Spec.

Well-- IF we are sending troops to places like Afghanistan, I would prefer our troops be as protected as possible. You can question the merits of a tank if that theatre if you wish but if it is helpful, I want our troops to have them.

AS for the rest, I see merit in Canada having its own armed forces. MIght brings a certain level of respect in the world community and even if our force is small but capable, that gives us the ability to really contribute in world events

[Tingkai]

It's just a rumor right now, but sounds like the typical Conservative approach of spending money without thinking.

Afghanistan has shown the Forces need tank support, but why are we buying Leopard 2s? Why not the Abrams? Wouldn't it be better to get a tank that has a track record of performing well in that region?

Why do a deal with the Germans? Has there been open bidding for the contract?

Is it really a good idea to give the crews new tanks in battlefield conditions? And it is not just the crews, but also the mechanics. These are not simple machines.

How much is this going to cost? The Navy ran out of money to buy fuel for basic patrols, and meanwhile the Conservatives are going on a spending spree buying new equipment.

Is there really a pressing need for new tanks? We haven't had loss any in Afghanistan yet and there are Leopard 1s in reserve in Canada.

I suspct little boy Harper just wants a new toy.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Doddler

Originally posted by notyoueither

DC isn't very close...

About 12000 miles way I think..

WHAT! And no one else has a problem with this?

The entire earth at the equator is ~25000 miles around. Are you saying that Washington DC is half way round the world from Canada?! What part?

It's about 500 miles from Toronto.

Tom P.

[Saras]

Well you already got leo1, should not be TOO difficult to retrain. Also, can't beat the price on those surplus bundeswehr A1 and A4's...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Saras
Well you already got leo1, should not be TOO difficult to retrain.

My thoughts exactly, but I didn't want to say anything to make Tingkai look bad in his rant about Harper not thinking.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Afghanistan has shown the Forces need tank support, but why are we buying Leopard 2s? Why not the Abrams? Wouldn't it be better to get a tank that has a track record of performing well in that region?

Good question-- Perhaps the thinking is that the new Leopards will be more similar and compatible with the ones we have and the Abrams would take longer to use effectively.

Harper probably doesn't want to be seen buying American tanks since there are some that see him as a toy for the Yanks anyway

Originally posted by Tingkai

Is it really a good idea to give the crews new tanks in battlefield conditions? And it is not just the crews, but also the mechanics. These are not simple machines.

I would hope that people would be fully trained up in any new equipment BEFORE it gets used in the field.

Originally posted by Tingkai


How much is this going to cost? The Navy ran out of money to buy fuel for basic patrols, and meanwhile the Conservatives are going on a spending spree buying new equipment.

Some new equipment was and is badly needed. Like you, I am uncertain whether tanks are needed that much right now. I am troubled if the forces do have a limited operational budget though. All the best equipment will be in vain if the troops do not have the needed training time

Originally posted by Tingkai



I suspct little boy Harper just wants a new toy.

It may well be a bad decision here but generally I do like his approach of trying to better equip our forces.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Saras
Well you already got leo1, should not be TOO difficult to retrain. Also, can't beat the price on those surplus bundeswehr A1 and A4's...

Just because they have the similar names doesn't mean they are similar tanks. In fact, they are very different.

The guns are different 120 vs 105s. . The engines are different. The electronics are going to be different. The control layouts will be different.

So we'll need to train the crews and just as importantly, the mechanics.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Flubber
Harper probably doesn't want to be seen buying American tanks

Yes, he'll probably buy the equipment that will get him the most votes, rather than what is good for the Forces.

But why not the Challenger? Again, another tank that has proven itself in the region.

Originally posted by Flubber
Some new equipment was and is badly needed.

I agree completely. My concern is just as problems were created by the Liberals being way too slow, problems are being created by the Conservatives making snap decisions.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Tingkai
It's just a rumor right now, but sounds like the typical Conservative approach of spending money without thinking.

Afghanistan has shown the Forces need tank support, but why are we buying Leopard 2s? Why not the Abrams? Wouldn't it be better to get a tank that has a track record of performing well in that region?

Abrams are (1) Gass-guzzlers, (2) more expensive and (3) in any event, the CF is getting the Leo's used from Germany, which is cheaper.

Why do a deal with the Germans? Has there been open bidding for the contract?

More likely the decision was made "we need a new MBT STAT and CHEEP. Also, we want there to maintenance/parts provided in the contract" hence leasing from Germany. (It's why the CF is buying 4
C-17s at $4 Billion without an open bit...the product is there and Boeing is providing a 20 year parts/labor/maintenance on it)

Is it really a good idea to give the crews new tanks in battlefield conditions? And it is not just the crews, but also the mechanics. These are not simple machines.

Again, I would be surprised if parts/maintenance/training were not part of the deal. And we know the tank works well, we just haven't seen it in any conditions more harsh than Kosov peacekeeping.

How much is this going to cost? The Navy ran out of money to buy fuel for basic patrols, and meanwhile the Conservatives are going on a spending spree buying new equipment.

Is there really a pressing need for new tanks? We haven't had loss any in Afghanistan yet and there are Leopard 1s in reserve in Canada.

In the event of a "Operation Desert Storm" type event you would need Leo 2s, yeah.

I suspct little boy Harper just wants a new toy.

I find it amazing you are calling trading in 30 yr + tanks for mere 15 yr + tanks "new toys "