Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

[DinoDoc]

Understandable.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Once upon a time, Catherine the Great's army conquered the Crimea. She wanted to take a tour of her new conquests. Her minister, Potemkin, arranged for a set of phony villages to be built along her route, filled with happy villagers, fat cows, etc. Once she passed, the villages were torn down, shipped ahead of her, rebuild, re-filled with the same happy villagers and the same fat cows.

The term Potemkin village is now used to refer to a self-inflicted illusion of prosperity.

Even cursory wikipedia research casts aspersions on this quaint tale.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yeah but does it cast aspersions on Catherine the Great's horsie love?

[Lorizael]

There's a link at the bottom of the page to another wikipedia article titled something like, "Other stupid rumors about Catherine the Great that people still believe."

[Dauphin]

Like how she went from old trout to young vixen in the blink of a Civ series?

[Drogue]

Re: Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Are we USAians just fooling ourselves as to how well off we are? Take a look at reality:

(1) Largest national debt in the history of humanity
(2) Gigantic national deficit, which is only slightly smaller than past record deficits run up by the Bush administration.
(3) Largest trade deficit
(4) Largest amount of personal debt

You missed one:
(5) Largest economy in the world, ever.

It still trumps the other 4, really.

[General Ludd]

Re: Re: Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

Originally posted by Drogue

You missed one:
(5) Largest economy in the world, ever.

It still trumps the other 4, really.

When you consider that the economy is made up of the other 4, not really.

[Zkribbler]

Re: Re: Re: Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

Originally posted by General Ludd

When you consider that the economy is made up of the other 4, not really.

QFT. I was going to say, not if it's made up of leprechaun gold.

[Drogue]

Re: Re: Re: Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

Originally posted by General Ludd
When you consider that the economy is made up of the other 4, not really.

But they don't define it, by any means. The others are all characteristics. The economy isn't the sum of:

(1) Largest national debt in the history of humanity
(2) Gigantic national deficit, which is only slightly smaller than past record deficits run up by the Bush administration.
(3) Largest trade deficit
(4) Largest amount of personal debt

These are figures that describe a certain aspect. The may have the largest trade deficit, but that's a meaningless figure. What matters is whether it's the largest trade deficit relative to the size of its economy. The same with national debt, budget deficit and personal debt. A debt the size of the US's would cripple any other country instantly.

Even considering the others, the US still has by far the world's biggest economy, which counts for a lot.

[pchang]

As a person with no debt and a good positive cash flow, I wish that Zkribbler's dour view were true. I'd clean up once the collapse hit. Alas, 'tis not to be.

[Zkribbler]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is the U.S. just one big Potemkin village?

Originally posted by Drogue
Even considering the others, the US still has by far the world's biggest economy, which counts for a lot.

Spain's economy was once the world's largest...but they didn't build up their industry but instead counted on importation of Aztec and Inca gold. Once that ended, so did their economy.

The French economy tanked when the South Sea Bubble burst.

Likewise, the Dutch economy collapsed along with the price of tulips

My point is, you can have history's largest national debt, history's largest trade deficit and history's largest consumer debt and expect to skip happily ever after into the future.

[Drake Tungsten]

You might not be able to ***** about the budget deficit for much longer...

Despite the ongoing costs of US military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, the outlook for the federal budget has grown substantially brighter.

Tax revenues are rising much faster than spending, according to Treasury Department numbers released last week. The recent trend is strong enough that, were it to continue, the budget could move into surplus in barely a year, one economist calculates.

Already, the federal deficit is shrinking toward about half the size that it has averaged since 1970, when analyzed as a percentage of gross domestic product.

The shift reflects a strong economy, with higher incomes and corporate profits generating a bigger flow of tax revenue. In turn, the Treasury's progress could help the economy by buoying investor confidence in the nation's fiscal position.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0221/p01s03-usec.html

[Kuciwalker]

Spain's economy was once the world's largest...but they didn't build up their industry but instead counted on importation of Aztec and Inca gold. Once that ended, so did their economy.

... the comparison is absurd.

[CrONoS]

1: Comparing U.S.A. federal debt to other country can be hazardous. If we want to compare debt, we have to take the "debt to GDP" approach.

2: And we have to keep in mind that the federal debt doesn't represent the aggregate national debt; the administrative system is much more decentralized in USA than... in Europe.

Even comparing the federal debt of USA with the federal debt of Canada is not correct.

3: And what is also important; to who you have borrowed money?

4: And what did you do with the money you have borrowed? Did you dig a hole in the ground, or you have built infrastructure, increased productivity? Education?
========

[CrONoS]

The personal debt is the worst kind of debt... If people are throwing money away on perishable consumer product! That's pretty bad!