The Weekly Standard Does CIV

[Lorizael]

You're one of a kind, Cort.

[BlackCat]

Don't be such a nitpicker, Lirozael.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by LordShiva


That's why I now call him Lori.

a good start, sittingshiva

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What a muddled article. Good that Civ gets a mention (though not CFC over Poly ). But the constant asides to Sid being a man of faith, while the other big designers aren't (somehow making him 'better'?). Will Wright doesn't have blood and gore in his games either, so I'm not sure where faith has anything to do with it.

Just kind of jumped around too much.

I didnt read it as that connected. It was just a bunch of asides, really. The stuff about him not doing gore id seen before, the stuff about his being religious I hadnt. While the author pointed out a link for Sid personally, I dont think he meant a broad correlation - if he did, he could have simply omitted the reference to Will Wright.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
I think the comparison works a bit better than that, LotM, but I grant you it's not the same thing. And I for one haven't really argued otherwise.

As for the "sensory satisfaction from the depiction of blood and death," sure, but then again I'm sure everyone who has played Civ has occasionally played as a bloodthirsty warmonger to obtain satisfaction from being a Ghengis Khan-like conqueror. It's not the same, and yet there are similarities.

-Arrian

Nah, thats like the difference between seeing a movie about a ladys man whos always getting the women he wants (say "All that Jazz" for example) and seeing a porn movie. One is something that feeds some peoples fantasies of being in a position to kill lots of folks, or shtup lots of women, or whatever. The other is to get (as much as visuals on a screen can do) the feeling youre actually killing or shtupping.

[lord of the mark]

glad to see the censoring software doesnt speak yiddish.

[ZEE]

i hafta learn some yiddish

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I didnt read it as that connected. It was just a bunch of asides, really. The stuff about him not doing gore id seen before, the stuff about his being religious I hadnt. While the author pointed out a link for Sid personally, I dont think he meant a broad correlation - if he did, he could have simply omitted the reference to Will Wright.

But it easily could be read that way. The fact that both Arrian and I saw it in such a way (that he was trying to make such a point) indicates it isn't clear his intent there.

[Arrian]

Nah, thats like the difference between seeing a movie about a ladys man whos always getting the women he wants (say "All that Jazz" for example) and seeing a porn movie. One is something that feeds some peoples fantasies of being in a position to kill lots of folks, or shtup lots of women, or whatever. The other is to get (as much as visuals on a screen can do) the feeling youre actually killing or shtupping.

Like I said, it is different. I grant you the point. I simply think that comparison works a little better than you give it credit for. Our disagreement is a minor difference of degree.

To me, the key distinction between the gore of a FPS and the abstract violence of Civ isn't the abstraction. That helps make Civ more highbrow, but (if unit animation is on) there is a graphical representation of violence/death. The game is not designed to revel in that, but it's something else that makes it better for me:

Civ offers so much more than just violence, whereas a FPS is a shoot 'em up game at its core. The whole point is to kill stuff in a FPS. In Civ, war, slavery, etc, are parts of a whole that includes city planning/development, tech decisions, diplomacy/trade, etc. And, as you pointed out, you can play the pacifist in Civ. We did an AU (Apolyton University) course on that for CivIII - where you literally could not build military units. Of course, my beautiful pacifist America was ripped to shreds ~5 turns from a UN victory by hordes of Egyptian cavalry...

-Arrian

[Drake Tungsten]

I bet Will Smith posts at CFC...

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
comparing the violence in Civ to violent games, is like saying Civ is comparable to porn games, cause the pop goes up after the city celebrates an "I love the king day"

one of the best jokes, evaar!

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


What!!!! Another long held belief of mine in the dust!

I felt the same way upon reading that Sid is Canadian by birth.

[Sirotnikov]

Two fatal blows in one thread

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
glad to see the censoring software doesnt speak yiddish.

shtup - great word. I must remember this and use it wherever possible.

[Cort Haus]

Hmmm, I already know shtum, schlep, schmuk, schmaltz, schlong, chutzpah and kitsch