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  • Europe being Finlandized via Germany and France?

    To be honest, I didn't expect it from the present German gov't.

    Stand strong Poland and the Czech Republic!

    From the FT...

    Moscow warns neighbours over US shield

    By Neil Buckley in Moscow, Jan Cienski in Warsaw and Hugh Williamson in Berlin

    Published: February 19 2007 20:08 | Last updated: February 19 2007 20:08

    Poland and the Czech Republic could be targeted by Russian missiles if they host elements of the planned US missile defence system, the commander of Russia’s strategic missile forces warned on Monday.

    The warning came as both Warsaw and Prague signalled they were likely to respond positively to US requests for them to host anti-missile defence bases.

    Germany also on Monday expressed concern about the stand-off over the missile defence project, with Frank-Walter Steinmeier, foreign minister, criticising the US and Nato for not addressing Russia’s worries over the system earlier. Russia continued to make clear its deep opposition to the system as General Nikolai Solovtsov warned that basing parts of it in eastern Europe risked undermining strategic stability.

    “If the governments of Poland, the Czech Republic and other countries make this decision . . . [Russia’s] strategic missile troops will be able to target those facilities,” he said.

    His comments come after criticisms of the project by Vladimir Putin, Russian president. General Yuri Baluyevsky, chief of the Russian army, has warned that Moscow might withdraw from the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces treaty unless the US dropped its plans. The strategic missile forces commander echoed that threat yesterday, saying Russia could resume production of medium-range missiles within five or six years.

    “We have all the documents, we have the technology, especially as the missiles used to be produced by existing enterprises.

    Therefore resuming production, provided there are relevant decisions, will be easy enough,” Gen Solovtsov said.

    During a visit to Warsaw on Monday, Mirek Topolanek, the Czech prime minister, said Poland and the Czech Republic would have to undertake a large communication effort to explain the programme to Russia as well as to Germany and France – and to their own populations.

    But he said it was “naïve” to suppose that the US had not consulted Russia over the project. Jaroslaw Kaczynski, his Polish counterpart, said the shield was “not aimed at any normal country”.


    “We will attempt to persuade the Russians that which is obvious and which they of course realise, that this is in no way an installation directed at them,” he said.

    Mr Kaczynski said: “We are jointly deeply convinced that important decisions concerning the security and future of our countries and Europe have to be taken – I’m speaking here of the shield.”

    The US state department did not comment on the Russian threat but said the defensive system it was developing with the Czech and Polish governments was in no way targeted at Russia.

    “We have offered to co-operate with Russia on missile defence. We think we face a common set of threats emanating from the Middle East as well as other areas,” a spokesman said.

    Russia has dismissed US arguments that the shield – with tracking radar in the Czech Republic and missiles in Poland – is designed to allow Europe and the eastern US to intercept missiles launched from rogue nations in the Middle East.

    Mr Steinmeier said in a newspaper interview: “Because the sites for the stationing [of the missile defence system] are quite near Russia, one should have talked about it with Russia beforehand.”

    Henning Riecke, security expert at Berlin’s DGAP foreign affairs institute, said it was clear to the German government that Russia was not threatened by the proposed defence system, but Berlin was keen to maintain stable relations with Moscow.

    Additional reporting by Krishna Guha in Washington
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

  • #2
    Is Russia even strategically meaningful on the global stage anymore?

    Comment


    • #3
      In addition to Poland and the Czech Republic, the United Kingdom and Denmark are also part of the select group of countries working with the U.S. on the shield's implementation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Kuciwalker
        Is Russia even strategically meaningful on the global stage anymore?
        Unfortunately, they're very meaningful

        1. They have nukes.
        2. We're not quite sure where those nukes are pointed.
        3. We're not quite sure who has the key to the fire button. Or if he's given his nuke to a terrorist and bought some borscht with the money.

        Therefore we have to take them into account...
        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

        Comment


        • #5
          1. They have nukes.


          They're not going to do anything with them.

          2. We're not quite sure where those nukes are pointed.


          They're not getting launched anyway.

          3. We're not quite sure who has the key to the fire button. Or if he's given his nuke to a terrorist and bought some borscht with the money.


          Leaving the Russian government even more insigificant than before.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think it's a farily well established historical lesson that you don't push heavily armed rivals into corners with little thought for the consequences, unless you like costly confrontations.

            That and their perceptions are more important than your intentions.
            (\__/)
            (='.'=)
            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

            Comment


            • #7
              Is Finland still Finlandized?
              Long time member @ Apolyton
              Civilization player since the dawn of time

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh God, is that stupid 'missile shield' still on the go? Why not just burn the money and be done with it?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dan: the translation is that you can do pretty much anything want, but you have to make sure Russia feels important.
                  DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lancer
                    Is Finland still Finlandized?
                    We're mostly Europeanized nowadays.
                    I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Colon™
                      Dan: the translation is that you can do pretty much anything want, but you have to make sure Russia feels important.
                      Can we build a missile shield for Moscow as well? What they have now are some nuke tipped ABM missiles around Moscow.
                      Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                      Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                      Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lets face it Russian nukes probaby won't work as someone will have stolen the expensive bits
                        Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                        Douglas Adams (Influential author)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sandman
                          Oh God, is that stupid 'missile shield' still on the go? Why not just burn the money and be done with it?
                          OMG YOU ARE WEAK ON COMMIES OMG!

                          Not wanting to spend billions of your state budget on a "classified" project which hasn't had any public breakthroughs since it's start? Clearly, you are now being Finlandized!

                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                          Is Russia even strategically meaningful on the global stage anymore?
                          Not really. But corporations producing R&D on "missile shield" systems need a boogeyman in order to justify a project which hasn't progressed at all during the last 20 years but is eating billions of dollars every year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Serb
                            THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                            AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                            AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                            DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why would a country feel threatened

                              by a missile defense system? Are they frightened by the loss of the ability to intimidate their neighbors by threatening to shoot missiles at them?
                              “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                              ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man

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