Czech president: Gore is insane.

[Solly]

[Solly]

Re: Re: Re: Pekka

Originally posted by VJ

If you weren't you might be able to read that according to your own (badly obsolete) data, temperature has gone up since 1990.

One thing I find amusing about the AGW sympathisers is the unwillingness to discuss data unless it's the most recently adjusted doctored.

[Solly]

Hey, Asher!

Toronto is above freezing today for the first time in a month. Must be global warming.

[Wezil]

I don't know if it is GW or not, but I like it.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Wezil
I don't know if it is GW or not, but I like it.

Third longest spell below freezing since records began, apparently. In the CO2 and UHI warmed world, that is astonishing.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Doddler


Third longest spell below freezing since records began, apparently...

Really? It was cold for a couple weeks but hardly record setting IMHO.

[Solly]

The longest stretch of days when the daily maximum temperature did not rise to 0°C.

46 days - 1977 - Dec 26 to Feb 9
46 days - 1978 - Jan 27 to Mar 13
35 days - 1985 - Jan 7 to Feb 10
28 days - 1966 - Jan 11 to Feb 7
27 days - 1945 - Jan 13 to Feb 8
23 days - 1979 - Jan 29 to Feb 20
22 days - 1980 - Jan 23 to Feb 13
22 days - 1948 - Jan 22 to Feb 12
21 days - 2003 - Jan 10 to Jan 30
20 days - 1981 - Dec 30 to Jan 18

As measured at Pearson, uncorrected for UHI effects resulting from the massive development in and around the airport.

How does 2007 compare?

30 days - Jan 20 to Feb 19

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1136#comment-85809

[Wezil]

How about that. 4th (not 3rd) but long stretch I guess.

The cold days blend in together after awhile. It is that mindset of perservering by not thinking of the discomfort. Canadians are masters of it.

[Ned]

You can see the original charts I posted here:

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html

Text from the link:

For more than 2 million years our earth has cycled in and out of Ice Ages, accompanied by massive ice sheets accumulating over polar landmasses and a cold, desert-like global climate. Although the tropics during the Ice Age were still tropical, the temperate regions and sub-tropical regions were markedly different than they are today. There is a strong correlation between temperature and CO2 concentrations during this time.

Historically, glacial cycles of about 100,000 years are interupted by brief warm interglacial periods-- like the one we enjoy today. Changes in both temperatures and CO2 are considerable and generally synchronized, according to data analysis from ice and air samples collected over the last half century from permanent glaciers in Antarctica and other places. Interglacial periods of 15,000- 20,000 years provide a brief respite from the normal state of our natural world-- an Ice Age Climate. Our present interglacial vacation from the last Ice Age began about 18,000 years ago.

Over the last 400,000 years the natural upper limit of atmospheric CO2 concentrations was about 300 ppm. Today, CO2 concentrations worldwide average about 370 ppm. Humans may be able to take credit for some of these additions, but not all of them. Earth's plant life will respond to soak up these additions with additional biologic activity, but this takes time. Meanwhile perhaps up to 9% of CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere today may be attributable to human-related activities like agriculture, industry, and transportation. Compared to former geologic periods, concentrations of CO2 in our atmosphere are still very small and may not have a statistically measurable effect on global temperatures. For example, during the Ordovician Period 460 million years ago CO2 concentrations were 4400 ppm while temperatures then were about the same as they are today.

Do rising atmospheric CO2 concentrations cause increasing global temperatures, or could it be the other way around? This is one of the questions being debated today. One thing is certain-- earth's climate has been warming and cooling on it's own for at least the last 400,000 years, as the data below show. At year 18,000 and counting in our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age, we may be due-- some say overdue-- for return to another icehouse climate!

[Berzerker]

Ned

[GePap]

Hmmm... so Ned's chart shows that prior to human action, at least in the last 400,000 years the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, in all these cycles, had NEVER gone above 300 in that scale. Yes, the CO2 has been climbing for the last 180,000 years, but the last 100 years is utterly abnormal and completely different from everything Ned's own graph shows for the past.

I am sorry, but how is that graph in any way helpful to the anti-GW argument when it clearly shows human activity bringing abount a completely new situation?

[Berzerker]

Yup, the chart does indicate lower CO2 levels over the last 400,000 years. But I've read elsewhere that temps and CO2 were higher 9K-5K ya, so that point needs to be clarified. The graph is helpful because it shows inspite of CO2 levels increasing, temps are within normal parameters.

[Ned]

GePap, did you read past the point where CO2 was once 4400ppm, more than 10 times today's 383ppm, but the temps were the same as they are today?

[Solly]

The more I read about "Local Anthropogenic Warming" (ie, land use effects on temperature) the more I am sure that the climatologists are really not paying attention to a major temperature-recording effect.

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1152

It's especially interesting how a jump in "global" recorded temperature occurred just when a large number of USSR recording stations closed in 1991 - mainly the colder ones.



This is far more complex than the urban v rural distinction that is used to downplay the significance of this.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
GePap, did you read past the point where CO2 was once 4400ppm, more than 10 times today's 383ppm, but the temps were the same as they are today?

Sorry, but a cingular period 300,000,000 million years ago is pretty irrelevant to the discussion today.