Who exactly is fighting the War on Terror?

[Drake Tungsten]

I assume we're both intelligent enough to realize that the missing Iraqi munitions are by far the more plausible explanation for where the insurgency has been getting its IEDs et al from.

Both explanations seem plausible. There's no reason whatsoever that Iraqi insurgents couldn't be getting munitions for IEDs from both sources.

[Dinner]

Most of the IEDs for the first several years where indeed artillery rounds pillaged from unsecured Iraqi military faucilities. I saw several of them while there.

The Iranians supposedly helped by teaching people how to make shape charges, providing money, and other training.

[KrazyHorse]

Give a man an IED, and he'll blow up one infidel. Teach a man to make IEDs, and...

[DRoseDARs]

...he'll decide to become a war profiteer and live like a king by selling arms to whoever wishes to buy. War is just as good for profits as peace is. Ferengi sensibilities.

[MRT144]

ferengi sensibilities is all ears

[Patroklos]

Upwards of 377 tons of ammunition (200,000 rounds of 156mm shells among other munitions) were lifted out

does not equal this;

a vast Iraqi weapons depot with tens of thousands of artillery rounds and other explosives remained unguarded

10's of thousands /= 100's of thousands.

In either case, it hardly explains how the insurgents were able to move a tonnage found by calculating this;

Why don't you calculate the total weight of that, the volume needed to store it, and the number of trucks required to move it, and get back to me

This would be where you ask you self "does this pass the common sense rule" before blindly posting it.

I do like how you revised your original estimate by at least ten times with the source you think supports your statement, did you realize this at the time?

by reports Monday that as much as 377 tons of highly powerful explosives had disappeared from a weapons

So where did 377 tons and 200,000 rounds of 156mm rounds come from? Reports? What the hell does that mean anyways? Who reports? Where is this report?

The reason journalism sucks so bad these days is obviously no body is demanding quality. Reports, HA.

[KrazyHorse]

A week after the fall of Baghdad, on April 16, 2003, soldiers from the 82nd Airborne Division discovered the depot, according to a report in The Fayetteville (N.C.) Observer. The soldiers said they found 65 bunkers, 75 open depots, and enough ammunition to support nearly two divisions of soldiers. The soldiers said the depot held an estimated 200,000 156 mm artillery rounds, along with mortar rounds, tank rounds and rocket-propelled grenades, the anti-armor munition that has been a weapon of choice for the Iraqi insurgency.

Learn to read.

[Patroklos]

Upwards of 377 tons of ammunition (200,000 rounds of 156mm shells among other munitions) were lifted out

Learn to read completely.

I am not arguing that Iraqi insurgents are not primarily armed with ex-Iraqi army muntions. This is actually to be expected. It is simple absurd to suggest the amount of material looted is on the scale D suggets. If you read his sources do they really do anything but suggest what was available to be looted?

[KrazyHorse]

I understand that his article did not prove his point completely. But you obviously missed the important line in the article, since you posted an objection to the total number as well (not just the eventual fate of the ammunition)

10's of thousands /= 100's of thousands.

I'm not particularly interested in proving him right, given that I don't believe he is. Simply in pointing out that you need to read the sources you're provided more carefully.

[Patroklos]

You are right, I did skim over that part, but look at the particular portion I responded to and it really doesn't matter. Contesting the total number was a noob, but trivial, mistake.

by reports Monday that as much as 377 tons of highly powerful explosives had disappeared from a weapons

[DRoseDARs]

I'd suggest you read the Wikipedia article as well, since you have not yet done so, particularly the Timeline portion. This stuff wasn't transported by donkeys with bucket slung over their backs...

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by MRT144
syria, hezbollah, russian rpgs. not iran. dummies.

a) hezbullah = iran
b) hezbullah is much less involved in Iraq, since it is harder to reach.

The main involvement is by the Iranian revolutionary guards.
Who are also the real driving power behind Hezbullah.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Learn to read completely.

I am not arguing that Iraqi insurgents are not primarily armed with ex-Iraqi army muntions. This is actually to be expected. It is simple absurd to suggest the amount of material looted is on the scale D suggets. If you read his sources do they really do anything but suggest what was available to be looted?

I'm serious and I've posted about this back when I was there. There were tons and tons of munitions left unsecure and Iraqi peasants first looted them to get the bass shell casings which they'd sell as scrape but after that insurgents started to take the explosive shells to use as IEDs. Click the link in my sig and you'll find posts where I blogged about it at the time. The US and UK just didn't have the forces to secure all of the bunkers much less enough UXO teams to blow up the munitions.

[DRoseDARs]

Oh be quiet, Oerdin. You're not an expert. You don't know what you're talking about... [/sarcasm]

[Ramo]

As for Iran and IED's, almost all such attacks come from Sunni Arabs. Saying that Iran's responsible for supplying these groups when they're blowing up Iran's co-religionist allies is pretty damn absurd (characteristic of Dear Leader's propaganda).