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  • Grounded?

    Questions mount over US helicopter losses

    Yet another US helicopter has now been lost in Iraq.

    This time it was a CH-46 Sea Knight transport helicopter, which came down near Baghdad.

    Al-Qaeda in Iraq claims to have brought it down, though the US military has indicated it may have been mechanical failure.

    But whatever the reason, five helicopters have now been lost already this year with the US admitting at the weekend that the other four had been shot down.

    Not surprisingly perhaps two key questions are now being asked.

    New techniques?

    First, are there any indications that the insurgents in Iraq have decided to step up attacks on US aircraft?

    Second, have they developed new techniques or acquired new equipment to make any attacks more successful? Both questions are hard to answer definitively.

    It is clearly the case that insurgents have wanted to shoot down US helicopters ever since the invasion in 2003.

    Until now the US military has avoided losses by flying low and fast...but no method is entirely fail-safe

    And as the US military does not provide details on the number of attacks on aircraft it is difficult to know whether or not there has been an upsurge.

    Last weekend, a US military spokesman in Iraq Major General William Caldwell said it was premature to conclude that the threat posed to aircraft by insurgents had dramatically increased over the last few weeks.

    But if it is hard to establish whether there is a new focus on targeting helicopters, have the insurgents got better at shooting them down?

    In the past insurgents have tended to target helicopters using small arms fire, rocket propelled grenades and shoulder-fired missiles like the Soviet-era SA-7.

    Good 'luck'

    Certainly some insurgent groups have said they now have new ways to bring down aircraft, but it is not clear whether it is merely a boast or a reference to new anti-aircraft missiles.

    Military analysts say they have seen no evidence of any new weapons, though they certainly do not rule the possibility but neither do they rule out the idea that it may well be just the insurgents good "luck" that accounts for this year's losses.

    Relatively speaking the insurgents have had limited success in bringing helicopters down given the huge number of flights they have flown.

    A US Black Hawk helicopter over Baghdad
    Flying low to the ground has been one way to evade fire

    After 1.5 million hours of flying time, some 55 helicopters have been lost since May 2003, about half to enemy fire according to figures compiled by the Brookings Institution.

    But the US military is not taking any chances. The US command in Iraq has already ordered changes in flight operations in the face of the recent losses.

    Although they will not specify what those changes are, Major General William Caldwell said the US was "making adjustments in our tactics and techniques and procedures as to how we employ our helicopters".

    There is no doubt helicopters are vulnerable if they can been seen and if enemies have the right weapons. Until now the US military has avoided losses by flying low and fast and by varying the routes and time of travel, but no method is entirely fail-safe.

    What is also not in doubt is the importance of helicopters to US forces in Iraq. With travel by road long considered the most dangerous option helicopters have been the mainstay for getting around Iraq quickly and relatively safely.

    It is hardly surprising the insurgents would want to make life as difficult for American forces in the air as it is for them on the ground.
    Four already confirmed shot down this year, the fifth sound like it was also shot down...


    Wonder if it's those pesky Iranians?
    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

  • #2
    those pinko commie chinese would be my bet
    Safer worlds through superior firepower

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    • #3
      It's the Saudis.

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      • #4
        Could it be AILIENS ?!?1/?
        Quendelie axan!

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        • #5
          Saudis?


          Probably Iranians, yes.

          Iranian technology is based on russian / chinese / korean designs. (And chinese and korean designs are based on russian designs.)

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          • #6
            I don't see why the Iranians would be giving weapons to Sunni groups though. Now Syria or Saudi Arabia...
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Oerdin
              I don't see why the Americans would be giving weapons to Fundi anti-american Mujahadeen like Hekmatyar though. Now Pakistan or Saudi Arabia...
              Fixed, for historical purposes.
              Last edited by lord of the mark; February 8, 2007, 14:51.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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              • #8
                Any chance of using bold and strikethrough to show what's been 'fixed'? That would be most kind. Otherwise the user has to work to sort out the fraudulent misquotation.

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                • #9
                  Al-Qaeda in Iraq claims to have brought it down, though the US military has indicated it may have been mechanical failure.
                  I do imagine getting hit by SAM fire would induce some form of mechanical failure

                  It's also entirely possible that the insurgents just got better at using existing equipment. I mean, I don't know how inaccurate their stuff is, but I imagine that with enough time using it, they might get better at it.
                  "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                  -Joan Robinson

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cort Haus
                    Any chance of using bold and strikethrough to show what's been 'fixed'? That would be most kind. Otherwise the user has to work to sort out the fraudulent misquotation.

                    hope that helps.
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                    • #11
                      Also those transport helicopters are pretty big and slow. You can easily bring them down with an RPG is they're flying low enough.
                      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                      • #12
                        But I wonder, I bet there are hidious amounts of helos flying around. Is five shot down, "a lot"? Sure, it's lot to the poor buggers inside, but...
                        I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
                          But I wonder, I bet there are hidious amounts of helos flying around. Is five shot down, "a lot"? Sure, it's lot to the poor buggers inside, but...
                          It's probably like during the invasion when the Swedish media would report of stiffening Iraqi resistance every day ... only those American units never seemed to slow down.
                          Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?

                          It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
                          The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
                            But I wonder, I bet there are hidious amounts of helos flying around. Is five shot down, "a lot"? Sure, it's lot to the poor buggers inside, but...
                            The helicopters are every where there. They are faster and safer then driving so everyone is on a chopper at one time or another. I myself flew from Tikrit to Baghdad round trip 4-5 times and even flew Baghdad to Kuwait round trip. It's just the fastest and safest way to travel short of a jet.
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #15
                              Remember this guy?

                              Blah

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