South India

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Arrian


WTF? Ruins are often excellent tourist destinations.

Would you avoid Pompey? Granted, that was destroyed by volcanic eruption and not teh eeeevil Muslims, but it's still a bunch of ruins (some are in excellent condition, of course).

-Arrian

Let me put it to you this way.

Imagine that Mecca and Medina today represent the pinnacle of Muslim culture, and are the greatest Muslim cities the world has ever seen. Imagine that tomorrow, some imperialist ideology takes hold of India. India goes and destroys Mecca and Medina, but leave the Kaaba intact. We loot and depopulate the city for over one and a half years, by the end of which everyone has either fled or is dead. We stop Muslims from going there for over a hundred years, which effectively kills the Muslim pilgrimage tradition.

Fast forward two hundred years later. Indian power stands broken, but Mecca and Medina are never rebuilt, and the tradition of the pilgrimage is lost.

Fast forward another two hundred years. Imagine you're a Muslim, acutely conscious of Muslim history.

Could you ever take joy in those ruins as a tourist?

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by LordShiva


I wouldn't know. But the OP isn't necessarily interested in that.

True.

[Arrian]

Fast forward another two hundred years. Imagine you're a Muslim, acutely conscious of Muslim history.

Could you ever take joy in those ruins as a tourist?

Joy? I don't know. Interest? HELL YES.

-Arrian

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Let me put it to you this way.

Imagine that Mecca and Medina today represent the pinnacle of Muslim culture, and are the greatest Muslim cities the world has ever seen. Imagine that tomorrow, some imperialist ideology takes hold of India. India goes and destroys Mecca and Medina, but leave the Kaaba intact. We loot and depopulate the city for over one and a half years, by the end of which everyone has either fled or is dead. We stop Muslims from going there for over a hundred years, which effectively kills the Muslim pilgrimage tradition.

Fast forward two hundred years later. Indian power stands broken, but Mecca and Medina are never rebuilt, and the tradition of the pilgrimage is lost.

Fast forward another two hundred years. Imagine you're a Muslim, acutely conscious of Muslim history.

Could you ever take joy in those ruins as a tourist?

I think they might. They would probably rebuild and renew the haj.

Look at what happened to jerusalem the only holy city of the jews. None of the wanton destruction and loss ever removed it's value to them. I also suspect those who choose to visit modern jerusalem would be unmoved by your assertion that to do so would be too depressing in light of the tragic history and the destruction of all of their temples.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by aneeshm

Fast forward another two hundred years. Imagine you're a Muslim, acutely conscious of Muslim history.


Could you ever take joy in those ruins as a tourist?

1. Red Fred is no fundie hindu IIRC, so why should he care?

2. I would revive the pilgrimage even if the cities were in ruins. The Kaaba is still there in your scenario.

3. Muslims wouldn't have any problem with that anyway. Many would rejoice, feeling even more "righteous anger" against vile unbelievers. They love to commemorate defeats, like that battle lost by Muhammad, oh, I forgot the name. So I imagine, even more muslims would visit the ruins of Mecca and Medina than do today.

4. All completely irrelevant to the thread.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

1. Red Fred is no fundie hindu IIRC, so why should he care?

It's not only fundamentalists who are affected by history, you know.

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

2. I would revive the pilgrimage even if the cities were in ruins. The Kaaba is still there in your scenario.

OK, a slight amendment. The Kaaba has been desecrated in such a manner that the pilgrimage can no longer command the reverence it once did - it is dead.

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

3. Muslims wouldn't have any problem with that anyway. Many would rejoice, feeling even more "righteous anger" against vile unbelievers. They love to commemorate defeats, like that battle lost by Muhammad, oh, I forgot the name. So I imagine, even more muslims would visit the ruins of Mecca and Medina than do today.

I think it was Ali who lost the battle which is mourned today, not Mohammed.

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

4. All completely irrelevant to the thread.

I already gave my suggestions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

[q=aneeshm]OK, a slight amendment. The Kaaba has been desecrated in such a manner that the pilgrimage can no longer command the reverence it once did - it is dead.[/q]

Answered:

[q=Geronimo]Look at what happened to the jerusalem the only holy city of the jews. None of the wanton destruction and loss ever removed it's value to them. I also suspect those who choose to visit modern jerusalem would be unmoved by your assertion that to do so would be too depressing in light of the tragic history and the destruction of all of their temples.[/q]

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by aneeshm


I think it was Ali who lost the battle which is mourned today, not Mohammed.

I meant the battle of Uhud, lost by Muhammad.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III


I meant the battle of Uhud, lost by Muhammad.

They still mourn that?

[Adrian Hon]

Re: Re: South India

Originally posted by mitch

The city of Banglore itself is an absolute mess. It might have the most mild weather in all of south India but it is the most overcrowded messy city. It has changed so much in the last ten years (I remember when it used to be one of my favorite places). It has basically grown so fast and new new infastructure has been built to support the growth. Regardless, it is still a site to see and there are many tourist attractions (like Mysore) which are nearby.

Ditto about Bangalore. Two years ago, I was there for a week with a friend (a researcher at the Tata Institute) and it's definitely an interesting place to be. However, the roads were completely awful and I suspect they haven't gotten any better. Still, the place is very alive and there's plenty to do.

Also took a coach to Pondicherry (shortly before the tsunami), which was quite a pleasant place to laze around on for a few days. The French Quarter is obviously pretty cool to check out.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by aneeshm


They still mourn that?

Not really mourn, but they continue to use it for exemplary purposes: greedy muslims are supposed to have been the responsibles for the defeat.

[LordShiva]

Re: Re: Re: South India

Originally posted by Adrian Hon


Ditto about Bangalore. Two years ago, I was there for a week with a friend (a researcher at the Tata Institute) and it's definitely an interesting place to be. However, the roads were completely awful and I suspect they haven't gotten any better. Still, the place is very alive and there's plenty to do.

Also took a coach to Pondicherry (shortly before the tsunami), which was quite a pleasant place to laze around on for a few days. The French Quarter is obviously pretty cool to check out.

"Bangalore - it's a great place to live, but I wouldn't want to visit there"

[Solly]

It's a nice curry is a bangalore.

[Zkribbler]

[In a dazzling exhibition of self-control, Zkrib restrains himself from re-telling his Bang Galore joke.]

[mactbone]

Hey, isn't there some crazy happenings in Bangalore right now though? The company I work for has a bunch of guys in Bangalore and they were running a skeleton crew because of some law... or something about rivers. The jist was basically they feared an outbreak of violence and didn't want to make people work.