European Communist Commision

[VetLegion]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/22/business/roam.php

BERLIN: Germany, which holds the rotating presidency of the European Union, is proposing that EU countries limit the roaming fees that cellphone operators charge customers to 49 euro cents a minute for outgoing calls and 25 cents a minute for incoming calls, according to people with knowledge of the plan.

The proposed charges, equivalent to 63 U.S. cents a minute to make a call and 32 cents to receive one, was distributed last week to members of a Brussels working group representing the EU's 27 telecommunications ministers.

The ECommunists even have a web site dedicated to solely this issue:

http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/activities/roaming/why/index_en.htm

Now, don't get me wrong, we are being royally screwed by the operators. It's ridiculously expensive to keep in contact with people when you cross borders. It's no-talk time until you can get yourself to someplace where you can use Skype

So I don't like the corporations, but then again, where's this leading? Can't EU bureaucrats leave this to the market and find something better to do? Like counting how many of those Greeks should be getting the olive subsidies and how many are just screwing the system? Or regulating cucumber curvature?

[Spiffor]

Re: European Communist Commision

Originally posted by VetLegion
Can't EU bureaucrats leave this to the market

One of the jobs of the EU commission is to make Europe increasingly integrated. Roaming charges are an obstacle to intra-European exchange, and thus they're an enemy of the EC.

Besides, the market is fundamentally oligopolistic with cell phones, since each country only has a few operators (and the initil investment to make a mobile phone network is a *****)

Personally, I'd prefer them handling the issue like they did with ATMs: the banks can charge any way they want when a customer takes money at another bank's ATM, but the charge stays the same regardless of which other bank you take money from, in the whole Eurozone.

My bank chose to continue not charging fees when their customers take money at someone else's ATM. And now, it's free in the entire Eurozone

[VetLegion]

Really? You can take money from other banks' ATMs without charge? That rocks.

Anyway, I know EC is well meaning but people seem to be taking for granted that it can do whatever it wants. It's potentially a great menace.

[germanos]

Go VetLegion!

Keep Croatia out of the Union !

[MarkG]

Re: European Communist Commision

Can't EU bureaucrats leave this to the market and find something better to do?

only thing, the market is NOT lowering the prices on it's own as the companies are more or less in agreement no to go into a price war...

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Anyway, I know EC is well meaning but people seem to be taking for granted that it can do whatever it wants. It's potentially a great menace.

The European Commission cannot do whatever it wants. At all.

First, there are the institutional counterweights (which are actually more than counterweights): the Coucil of ministers, and the European Parliament. Generally, both must agree with an EC decision. And in almost all cases, even when the Parliament's agreement isn't mandatory, the Council's is. So, the EC isn't without scrutiny, and its decisions are only enacted when most European countries agree with them.

Besides, there's a democratic scrutiny. The EC is often slagged (deservedly so) as being the epitome of Eurocracy. Whenever it does something radically against a public opinion, people are mad about it. As a result, the EC constantly walks on eggs.

More specifically about the roaming: most countries think that the oligopolistic nature of the cell-phone market deserves an intervention, in order to avoid abuse by the companies. Roaming is typically a Europe-wide matter, so it's only normal the decision is taken at the EU-level, instead of the state-level.
This is a typical consumer-protection policy. It's the reason why the EU pushes for competition policies in the first place.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Really? You can take money from other banks' ATMs without charge? That rocks.

Yes. I once pondered switching to a new bank, but then I'd have had to pay everytime I took money from another bank (regardless of whether it was French or foreign). Since I prefer paying in cash, and since I prefer carrying small amounts, I clearly sticked to my old bank

[Solly]

Re: Re: European Communist Commision

Originally posted by MarkG
only thing, the market is NOT lowering the prices on it's own as the companies are more or less in agreement no to go into a price war...

That's for national competition commissions to assess, not the EU.

[OzzyKP]

Re: Re: European Communist Commision

Originally posted by MarkG
only thing, the market is NOT lowering the prices on it's own as the companies are more or less in agreement no to go into a price war...

Price fixing is a separate beast, and it'd be appropriate for the EU or whoever to tackle that. Setting prices though isn't the answer.

[MarkG]

Re: Re: Re: European Communist Commision

Originally posted by Doddler
That's for national competition commissions to assess, not the EU.

so "communist" tactics are ok on a national level but not on EU level?

[MarkG]

on a related issue, i enter germany and i have 3 networks to connect to. how on earth do i know which is cheapest? that's not a free market in full operation. i should by able to get (for free) information on pricing via sms or gprs.

instead i get a silly "welcome to germany" sms.

[Adalbertus]

Re: Re: Re: European Communist Commision

Originally posted by Doddler


That's for national competition commissions to assess, not the EU.

A common market requires common regulation mechanisms. Which doesn't mean that the Commission is the right institution. (I don't like the Commission anyway: Too much power for a basically non-democratic institution).

[germanos]

Originally posted by MarkG
on a related issue, i enter germany and i have 3 networks to connect to. how on earth do i know which is cheapest? that's not a free market in full operation. i should by able to get (for free) information on pricing via sms or gprs.

instead i get a silly "welcome to germany" sms.

I think in general that your phone will connect with the carrier that has a deal with your home carrier. Offcourse that doesn't automaticly mean it's the cheapest.

The good thing about the welcome message is that at least you get a hint you're on another network and may not be paying your regular fare.

But if any network in the area would start spewing out their fares, would that not be spam?

With an ever increasing European market, an ever increasing mobility of citizens it would make sense to charge per kilometer or something. This whole cross-border charging is a relic of the old national fixed line telecom operators.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The European Commission cannot do whatever it wants. At all.

First, there are the institutional counterweights (which are actually more than counterweights): the Coucil of ministers, and the European Parliament. Generally, both must agree with an EC decision. And in almost all cases, even when the Parliament's agreement isn't mandatory, the Council's is. So, the EC isn't without scrutiny, and its decisions are only enacted when most European countries agree with them.

And politicians wonder why citizens refuse to approve of this in the 'constitution'.
NON
NEE

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by germanos
And politicians wonder why citizens refuse to approve of this in the 'constitution'.

Actually, one of the few good points in the constitution was to make the Parliament's agreement mandatory in almost all cases.

People have rejected the text for a variety of reasons, but those who did it because of the institutional aspect are a tiny minority.