CanPol: Layton goes off the deep end

[Fake Boris]

Banks in Canada form an oligopoly, Kosher.

[Asher]

Which is why we need more competition.

The government won't allow more competition, so that's the underlying problem here. The UK has far more competition, and it was pressure from consumers that got banks to drop the inter-bank ATM fees not too long ago.

[Richelieu]

Some trolls are at least funny.

[snoopy369]

Yet we have a ton of banks in the US, and still have inter-atm fees on both sides

Stop playing straw man maker, Asher. Banks are fundamentally different than computer makers or other retail/manufacturing companies. Banks are essentially a public utility, like electric or gas companies. Yes, you could live without a bank account, but it limits your ability to do a LOT of necessary things ... and you could live without electricity also ...

Charging to deposit a cheque is pretty horrendous IMO. That's proof alone that the competitive marketplace doesn't exist in Canada and/or doesn't work.

Banks should process cheques for free because they are providing a public service. The economy is based on the existence and the function of banks (and was designed, by banks, to be that way, of course). Just like electricity companies are required to offer service to underserved citizens and are obligated not to cut off service for nonpayment without due process, and furthermore are regulated in how much they can charge (in some states anyway), so too should banks ... otherwise, preventing people from having a bank account (through fees in excess of what they can afford) prevents the poorest from participating fully in our (your) economy, and that is precisely what we have a government to prevent.

One great option, IMO, would be to set up a national bank (gov't-run) that behaves itself and doesn't charge silly fees. Then let the other banks do whatever they want... knowing they have to compete with this bank. That would probably be the best of both worlds ...

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Charging to deposit a cheque is pretty horrendous IMO. That's proof alone that the competitive marketplace doesn't exist in Canada and/or doesn't work.

Small businesses in the states don't have to pay bank fees? Nor anywhere in the world? That's pretty generous.

Bank deposits are free for me. Again, I have a no-fee bank account. I'm not charged for getting chequebooks (they send them to me for free, complete with the "leather" booklet thing), I'm not charged for depositing cheques, I'm not charged for any kind of transfers, I'm not charged for any kind of deposits, I'm not charged for any kind of withdrawls, I'm not charged any kind of monthly/yearly fee, I'm not charged on any interac transactions, etc.

The main problem in Canada is there are what, only 5 banks allowed by the government, period? It's not a competitive market because the government, and Layton, refuse to let it be one. Then they whine because their bank charges fees for things that not all banks do, and instead of switching banks it's easier to waste taxpayer time and money to legislate the problem away...It's big government, and I hate it.

I think your post displays a lack of understanding of the place of the financial sector in the economy..

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

Did some research...

CIBC charges all of 13 cents per cheque deposited. As someone selling computers as you do, what is that as a percentage of your average sale?

Also, why should the banks process cheques for free? Why should banks pay to stock their ATMs with money so users from other banks can take it out for free?

I simply do not see why these are fundamental rights that the government needs to step in to protect. In fact, I think it's bullying and politicking based on the record profits of banks (which, BTW, do not come from the $1.50 non-native ATM fee or the $0.13 cheque processing fee for businesses...) The only people buying it are those who want a free ride from the government, or too stupid so as to want the government invading every aspect of their life.

Cash, Asher. They are charging when a small business deposits cash. It is a small amount, now, but it is the principle of the thing.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Cash, Asher. They are charging when a small business deposits cash. It is a small amount, now, but it is the principle of the thing.

How desperate are you to save a buck?

If your bank charges you to deposit cash, then don't bank there. Consider that?

[notyoueither]

They all charge small businesses for depositing cash.

Edit: Last I checked.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
They all charge small businesses for depositing cash.

Edit: Last I checked.

I see CIBC charges $1.80 if you deposit $1000 in cash. How can you afford to heat your house at night?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher

Small businesses in the states don't have to pay bank fees? Nor anywhere in the world? That's pretty generous.

Bank deposits are free for me. Again, I have a no-fee bank account. I'm not charged for getting chequebooks (they send them to me for free, complete with the "leather" booklet thing), I'm not charged for depositing cheques, I'm not charged for any kind of transfers, I'm not charged for any kind of deposits, I'm not charged for any kind of withdrawls, I'm not charged any kind of monthly/yearly fee, I'm not charged on any interac transactions, etc.

The main problem in Canada is there are what, only 5 banks allowed by the government, period? It's not a competitive market because the government, and Layton, refuse to let it be one. Then they whine because their bank charges fees for things that not all banks do, and instead of switching banks it's easier to waste taxpayer time and money to legislate the problem away...It's big government, and I hate it.

I think your post displays a lack of understanding of the place of the financial sector in the economy..

I understood nye to be referring to personal, not business accounts, due to my inability to read. I honestly don't care what banks charge businesses- and the point of the OP was not referring to business accounts. However, my post holds true for personal accounts. If banks like yours are common and admit most anyone to have accounts, then I'm fine with that ... though in the states at least that sort of bank tends to be rare for the $0 deposit minimum. (Does your account have a minimum opening/maintenance deposit level?)

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I understood nye to be referring to personal, not business accounts, due to my inability to read. I honestly don't care what banks charge businesses- and the point of the OP was not referring to business accounts. However, my post holds true for personal accounts. If banks like yours are common and admit most anyone to have accounts, then I'm fine with that ... though in the states at least that sort of bank tends to be rare for the $0 deposit minimum. (Does your account have a minimum opening/maintenance deposit level?)

Nope.

Literally anyone can have an account. You can apply online in minutes, or at one of the major grocery store chains in Canada.

There's no minimum balance at all, no fees at all. Their credit card rules also, in the 3 years I've had it I've gotten $1,500 in free groceries...

And my unsecured line of credit with them is prime + 1.25%, the same as a friend of mine who has a secured line of credit with another Canadian bank...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

I see CIBC charges $1.80 if you deposit $1000 in cash. How can you afford to heat your house at night?

Again, it is the principle of the thing.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Try having few assets and open a bank account in this country. It can be quite trying.

In the absense of adequate regulation, the cheque cashing sharks flourish. Nobody with a dime to their name and a good head start due to momma and papa, like some people from Calgary, has to deal with it.

Others get jobbed. They need their pay cheque to pay the rent. Assuming a bank will deign to give them an account out the graciousness of their hearts, many people can't wait 10 days for a cheque to clear (nevermind that cheques clear in 24 hours). They need to pay their rent tomorrow, so they pay Money Mart a percentage for the priviledge of collecting their wages.

Money Mart is aptly named, for the owners of the Mart. The cash falls off trees.

This is mostly what I'm referring to. This is true in the states as well, and is truly evidence of the plight of the poor. For example, banks and businesses now are permitted to deposit checks electronically, allowing them to clear the check within the day (24h). Yet they still often hold checks for 7 days (even when their check is cleared 24h later). I know, I was a teller ...

States are starting to regulate these check cashing places, which is good, but frankly they should be looking to the banks, and requiring them to permit the use of any funds that have been in actuality cleared. (And permitting consumers to clear their checks electronically rather than through paper methods.)

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Again, it is the principle of the thing.

If you're concerned about principle and people making money off of services (like you make money off of products), then dig a hole in your backyard and bury your cash.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher

Nope.

Literally anyone can have an account. You can apply online in minutes, or at one of the major grocery store chains in Canada.

There's no minimum balance at all, no fees at all. Their credit card rules also, in the 3 years I've had it I've gotten $1,500 in free groceries...

And my unsecured line of credit with them is prime + 1.25%, the same as a friend of mine who has a secured line of credit with another Canadian bank...

Anyone can apply for an account, what are their criteria for accepting that application, though? You may not know people who are in the category of 'unable to open a checking account due to credit unworthiness' but I do ...

No min balance is good.

Your unsecured line of credit is probably due to your credit worthiness While the bank portion may well be fairly open, don't ever make the mistake of implying your credit experiences are relevant to the lower middle class. Many, through no fault of their own other than fact of birth, are unable to get decent credit...