There is no war on terror in the UK, says DPP

[lord of the mark]

LE vs Intell priorities

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/8e0db3aa-7975-11d9-89c5-00000e2511c8.html

Apparently Sir Ken wants to use wiretap intercepts in prosecutions. Would make his job easier, I guess. MI5 doesnt want to reveal methods.

A tradeoff thats obscured by confusing the conflicting priorities of LE and Intell. Is it more important to get a conviction, or to protect methods that might give info about an impending attack? Thats a problem we've had with the FBI here as well.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
I think that for starters, calling it a war dignifies the terrorists and their supporters.

How so?

[Arrian]

A tradeoff thats obscured by confusing the conflicting priorities of LE and Intell. Is it more important to get a conviction, or to protect methods that might give info about an impending attack? Thats a problem we've had with the FBI here as well.

Difficult question, to be sure. If in doubt, I'd lean toward getting the conviction.

-Arrian

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian


Difficult question, to be sure. If in doubt, I'd lean toward getting the conviction.

-Arrian

I suspect the right answer varies from case to case. My point was not to judge the substance of the issue, but to point out that the question is obscured by thinking of this as ordinary crime, and failing to see the conflict between LE and intell considerations.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How so?

Why not?

[DinoDoc]

You're the one that said that the semantic designation confers a measure of dignity upon them, I was curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You're the one that said that the semantic designation confers a measure of dignity upon them, I was curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

It feeds their delusions of being holy warriors rather than f*cked-up losers.

[Drake Tungsten]

lotm

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You're the one that said that the semantic designation confers a measure of dignity upon them, I was curious how you arrived at that conclusion.

Now, as pacifist as I am, I would think that there's still a greater deal of dignity in being a soldier, rather than a violent criminal. Maybe it's just me.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Now, as pacifist as I am, I would think that there's still a greater deal of dignity in being a soldier, rather than a violent criminal. Maybe it's just me.

HAVE YOU BEEN TO JAIL FOR JUSTICE?

© 1998 Anne Feeney (BMI)

Was it Cesar Chavez? Maybe it was Dorothy Day
Some will say Dr. King or Gandhi set them on their way
No matter who your mentors are it's pretty plain to see
That, if you've been to jail for justice, you're in good company

Have you been to jail for justice? I want to shake your hand
Cause sitting in and lyin' down are ways to take a stand
Have you sung a song for freedom? or marched that picket line?
Have you been to jail for justice? Oh, you're a friend of mine!

You law abiding citizens, come listen to this song
Laws were made by people, and people can be wrong
Once unions were against the law, but slavery was fine
Women were denied the vote and children worked the mine
The more you study history the less you can deny it
A rotten law stays on the books til folks like us defy it

The law's supposed to serve us, and so are the police
And when the system fails, it's up to us to speak our peace
It takes eternal vigilance for justice to prevail
So get courage from your convictions
Let them haul you off to jail!

[Victor Galis]

I was unaware that those people were violent criminals.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
I was unaware that those people were violent criminals.

Knew youd say that. So, the London bombers arent pacificists.

John Brown? Haymarket bombers? Charlotte Cordray? Fanny Kaplan? Lots of dudes who were violent criminals, and certainly not soldiers in a conventional war (though maybe Brown thought he was) found it pretty honorable. Now you and I may think abolitionism, anarchism, anti-Jacobin French Republicanism and anti-Leninist radical socialism are more honorable causes than establishing a Caliphate in Britain, but Im sure the bombers dont think theyre any more nihilist than the others.

[Victor Galis]

Well, I am (or rather was back when I was more obsessed with the period) a fan, for lack of a better term, of Marat's. I don't particularly care for Charlotte Corday

This, of course, illustrates the problem. There is no objective standard or good. If the muslim extremists win, to future generations their current terrorists will be heroes. History is written by the winners, for better or worse. Future generations will be educated by supporters of those who carry the day today, and will thus invariably will look favorably upon the winners of today.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Now, as pacifist as I am, I would think that there's still a greater deal of dignity in being a soldier, rather than a violent criminal. Maybe it's just me.

It's probably just you because you're ascribing emotional content to a word that doesn't require it.

[Victor Galis]

At any rate, the level of terrorist attacks in the west hardly constitutes a war. I'm infinitely more likely to be run over by a car than to be killed by a terrorist. Calling it a war attempts to instill a certain paranoia into the population that's entirely uncalled for.