Israeli settlers

[Rasputin]

Everyone get out of here !!

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Rasputin
perhaps everyone who "stole" other peoples lands should give it back.

when are The Europeans and Americans going to move out .

I'm German-English-Sioux-Cherokee. Where do I go??

[Rasputin]

keep on the move !!!

[Sprayber]

An interesting question is what people has been where they are now for the longest? Everyone has migrated from some place and Africa is too damn crowded as it is. How far back do we go?

[Rasputin]

wow , you mean we a lbrothers and sisters ??


so it odnt matter where we live then , and whoever settles somewhere can hav eit ...

[Sprayber]

I have been eying my neighbors house


and is his wife

[GePap]

Re: Re: Israeli settlers

Originally posted by lord of the mark
The land the west bank settlements are on is state land. Being the historian you are, Im sure you know that under the Ottoman empire ALL land was state land, and was allocated for use to farmers through a variety of means, often with a feudatorie/tax collecter over the peasants, but unlike in western europe the Ottoman state went to some trouble to keep these from being hereditary.

At some point, im not sure when, villages gained control over cultivated land. Nonfarmed land, however, remained the property of the state. Vast areas of non-arable or marginal land were still in state hands when the british mandate began, and were in turn taken over by the Jordanian state in 1948. When Israel took control in 1967, she planted settlements on some of this state land. Since the settlers are NOT farmers the fact that they are not on farmed land is not an issues. In general, IIUC, the pal villages are in the valleys, the settlements are on hilltops.

And yes, I have read that the Pals do find this amounts to economic pressure, since in past times a village would expand into nearby non-farmed land and bring it into cultivation, and the state would allocate it to the village. The settlements meant that in some places such expansion was no longer possible. Econonomic pressure, yes. A mark against the overall settlement policy, yes. Land theft, no.

See, its a very good idea to be more informed before making judgements. this is a more complex situation than you may realize.

Does any of that have any relevance to the international law banning settlements in disputed lands? NO.

Israel's soverignty over those lands is not recognized by anyone else, certainly not by the Palestinians. Therefore the settlements, whether they were built upon land seized from private Palestinian owners or not (and you must be aware of the study that stated that 40% of settlements are on privately held Palestinian land that israel appropriated without ever compensating the owners) remain illegal under international law, as do settlements in the Golan.

No state gets to try to make "facts on the ground" to deny ownership to another people prior to making an agreement on borders. That is international law.

[Kuciwalker]

Did he mention international law, or say it was legal under such? No.

[Az]

Some times Intl. Law matters, and sometimes it doesn't. Just like UNSC resolutions. right, GePap?

[Sandman]

sympathy at their plight

'Plight' scarcely applies to a heavily subsidised group of people attracted by generous tax breaks or psychopathic ideologies.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Of course settlers are subhuman. I consider everyone below warlord to be a potential bot.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sandman
'Plight' scarcely applies to a heavily subsidised group of people attracted by generous tax breaks or psychopathic ideologies.

Wait, it's okay to shoot at farmers? Sweet

[MOBIUS]

Yeah, the settlers do it all the time - your point is?

[Proteus_MST]

Re: Re: Israeli settlers

Originally posted by lord of the mark
...
And yes, I have read that the Pals do find this amounts to economic pressure, since in past times a village would expand into nearby non-farmed land and bring it into cultivation, and the state would allocate it to the village. The settlements meant that in some places such expansion was no longer possible. Econonomic pressure, yes. A mark against the overall settlement policy, yes. Land theft, no.
...

AFAIK the growth of the settlements encompasses palestinian farmed land as well.

I heard of palestinian olive groves getting bulldozed to make place for growing israelis settlements.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Re: Israeli settlers

Originally posted by GePap


Does any of that have any relevance to the international law

No. Of course not. It was a specific reply to Wernazumas question. In another thread in which Spiff expressed concern for the rights of Russians in Estonia, I asked him if he now supports the rights of settlers. This led to questions about the way Israeli settlers are thought of - I was thinking particularly of the lack of sympathy expressed for them during the evacutation from Gaza. It was very much in the context of the Estonian parallel, and it was NOT about state policy, but about attitudes toward human beings.

Wern decided to make a seperate thread because he SPECIFICALLY did not want to threadjack the other thread, and asked specifically about the land ownership question. To which I responded. Since this thread was started to avoid threadjacking, I suggest you also not threadjack it.