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  • Africa solution

    There is none. Let's remember, that it consists of many countries, cultures and people. So it's very different, depending where you'd go. There's good, there's bad, but what makes it a bit different as a continent from other continents is that it's the most poverty ridden and also has some kind of war going on at all times, or few.

    So, I look at this thing like, first, I thought we should all pitch in with money, because it's poor, and Europeans, Americans etc. had used Africans as free work force quite brutally. So.. it couldn't be made right, but it still shouldn't mean some kind of retroactive compensation shouldn't be made. Over some time, this money could help the poverty situation and therefore lift the individual countries up, and they would start then lifting the continent up to standards of other continents.

    Well, some time passed me believing this would be a solution. Now, I don't think it helps any, in fact, I think it even makes things worse in some areas. The money is hijacked by the powerful, nepotism rages and the money is used to strengthen some rulers, who would not distribute any of the wealth as intended. And a good portion of that money would always support some bush war (not the president), that further contributes to poverty and problems. So no. Handing out money just like that is part of the problem.

    Then I thought, well, maybe, since we have knowledge on few things, we could help by sharing that information. I thought this is a way of empowerment, people would learn to help themselves. Time passed on, and I realized, what is it that we must teach? How to use a hammer? They know how to use a hammer. I realized, that some commie ideas had infiltrated my thoughts, where I assume, that Africans must be not so smart, where they can't use a hammer or tools or ways of building stuff, infrastructure etc. Of course they know that. We're not that much smarter. So.. that doesn't work either. Sure, there's illiterate people, a lot of them, but everyone can use a hammer, or if not, be it Darwin time.

    So it came back to as a money plus knowledge problem, both solutions combined. But that's what we have now, isn't it? It isn't working. You can't fight the high rate of illness, hunger etc with these two, not at this rate you can't.

    So I thought, as a good capitalist, that they should come into the game of market, trade and give a good pounding on our overpriced asses. Kind of like Asian Tigers, who were in the same level in the 70s by the way. Give them some benefit in the market even, so they can have some help because we've been running it so that they'd be at a disadvantage anyway at first.

    But then I learned how, for example, EU works. It first gives money to Africa, sleeping well at night, and hopes, that the money will benefit thriving business, that can do trade, should be fairly easy in the market today, as labour cost isn't exactly too high there. So what's the problem? One of the problems is, that EU also budgets like 99 cents from a euro to support their own farmers. Farmers, the current day smiling mafia without tommy guns then has the benefit, so we spend double the money, because EU farmers go on complaining they can't survive now, because everything so expensive. So they'll end up winning anyway, with our tax money. So much for the Africans in the market. I mean, agriculture is another thing, but we can't expect them to compete in high tech, biomed or what ever. So, we kill the competition anyway. And if not, thne at least we set barriers to anyone else who isn't inside EU with the trade. As in ' your food products do not meet the standards', whcih is often bull**** anyway. We know about the cucumber curve standards and crap like that. It's protectionism. But we spend double money, just to come up with the default result we'd be having spending no money at all.

    So. Solution to Africa? There is no solution to Africa. If one bad decision was to conolize the place, it surely has been a poor result to leave it fast as well, also leaving all kinds of problems behind that were partly created by staying there.. fixing up new society where some folks were favoured and some weren't.. so when you leave, those parties will be grudging as a bonus. So you'd have wealthy and poor, but no middle class. That'll be a problem, if you leave quick.

    SO, my solution is not to touch anything. Just leave it as it is for now. No money, nothing, except food, with hired guns to deliver it and guard it will be served as intended. Stop cheating with the market, especially EU, when it comes to farming and all that. Besides that? Let nature take care of it.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    lol nuke them LOL /standard poly stupidity
    Blah

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    • #3
      Bah, let them eat cake!
      I'm not buying BtS until Firaxis impliments the "contiguous cultural border negates colony tax" concept.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't think Europe gets enough **** about Africa. It's pretty much their mess. Oh sure, let's bash America for Iraq... Bush is evil... America teh evil empire, blah blah blah... meanwhile, there's a whole continent that is ****ed up because of European colonialism and the Euros enjoy pretending that it's not their fault.

        Europe
        To us, it is the BEAST.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sava
          I don't think Europe gets enough **** about Africa. It's pretty much their mess. Oh sure, let's bash America for Iraq... Bush is evil... America teh evil empire, blah blah blah... meanwhile, there's a whole continent that is ****ed up because of European colonialism and the Euros enjoy pretending that it's not their fault.
          ANy Euro that is educated about Africa (and they are quite numerous, when you factor in Europeans of African origins) is perfectly aware of it.

          The question isn't so much as to whether we raped Africa. The question is more about what we should do, and if we are supposed to carry the guilt of our ancestors.

          Generally speaking, you'll find more post-colonial guilt in Europe than in the US, and you'll also find much more skepticism toward the "white man's burden" attitude, which is so prevalent in the US (with different words)
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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          • #6
            Africa itself isn't exactly blameless, though.
            THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
            AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
            AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
            DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

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            • #7
              Oh, and Pekka, your analysis is based on largely insufficient knowledge about the African situation.

              1. Firstly, there is a problem with education, and some of the things we know in the west are not necessarily known in Africa. For example, small businesses need among other things a good accountancy, in order to thrive. To keep your books, you need to write/read, which isn't always the case for a farmer or a shopkeeper.
              Some westerners go to Africa and actually teach base accountancy to the Africans, and their economic activity gets better. However, these humanitarian initiatives are small, and are nothing comparable with an education system.

              Another educational challenge is the brain drain. Almost every African country has one or several universities, and has a highly-educated part of the population, which is essential for economic takeoff. Unfortunately, many of them go west, since we are always willing to welcome highly-skilled people, and we pay them much, much more.

              Finally, let's not forget that AIDS and malaria kill many people before they get old, including educated people. This is a further obstacle in acquiring good skills, and in transmitting these skills to the next generation.

              Of course, learning the skills to become a doctor, an administrator or an entrepreneur is a bit more difficult than learning how to use a hammer. The Africans are just as able as whites to learn those skills, but they don't have the heavy educational infrastructure to that effect: this is why educational help from the west can be so important.


              2. The other thing that you might want to know, is that on of the reasons why there are so many wars, is because of Africa's economic structure, and because of the interests from the rest of the world. Africa is extremely reliant on natural resources, most African countries being reliant on one sole resource.
              Now, exploiting a natural resource isn't too hard, once the infrastructure is in place (cocoa farms, diamond mines...).You can exploit them with untrained people relatively satisfactorily.
              Since any ambitious guy wanting wealth will seek power (because political power and wealth are closely related in Africa), and since he can pretty easily replace the workers in case they get killed, he'll be so much more interested in taking power through guerilla.
              As a result, you see wars which are waged solely for the control of diamong mines (those are the most extreme cases), but generally speaking, anyone who controls a rich land get rich.
              If the African economy tilted more towards an industrial or service economy, such wars would be much less likely, simply because a war kills many serice employees who aren't that easily replaced.
              A "solution" would be to promote industrialization. In particular, to promote the local transformation of raw products into processed products, which carry much more value-added, and which aren't as easy to tap after the effects of a war. Several international institutions actually do things to that effect.
              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by LordShiva
                Africa itself isn't exactly blameless, though.
                Yup, they're humans too, and thus they suck
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Look at a map of Africa, notice how all the countries borders seem to be drawn out in straight lines. That's because they were without any consideration to the reality of ethnic groups. Hello eternal infighting and conflict within national states.
                  It's candy. Surely there are more important things the NAACP could be boycotting. If the candy were shaped like a burning cross or a black man made of regular chocolate being dragged behind a truck made of white chocolate I could understand the outrage and would share it. - Drosedars

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spiffor

                    Yup, they're humans too, and thus they suck
                    Yes, its always a pity.
                    You think that they´re fine people, until finally you discover they´re humans

                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                    Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                    • #11
                      Here goes comment about French farmers being demons from hell
                      I need a foot massage

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                      • #12
                        As far as I understand the European colonialism has done Africa much more good than what it has destroyed. Am I wrong to think so? If so, why?
                        Que l’Univers n’est qu’un défaut dans la pureté de Non-être.

                        - Paul Valery

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                        • #13
                          i thought it was well known that africa was paradise before the evil white man came along...
                          "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                          "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sava
                            I don't think Europe gets enough **** about Africa. It's pretty much their mess. Oh sure, let's bash America for Iraq... Bush is evil... America teh evil empire, blah blah blah... meanwhile, there's a whole continent that is ****ed up because of European colonialism and the Euros enjoy pretending that it's not their fault.

                            Europe
                            I hate self-lashing stuff like this. (sub-saharean) african mess is not european fault.
                            What was there before colonialism? Nothing. Colonialism left there infrastructure and patterns for development. Colonialism could have had benefitial effects on Africa, if they only were willing or able to make use of it. But they do not and it's not european fault, but theirs. It seems they are, for whatever reason, so miserable at self-gouverning they would have been better off with colonialism still going on.
                            Without colonialism, there would be
                            - chaos. Dozens of tiny trabe states fighting. Hutu vs Tutsi on a continental scale
                            - no infrastructure of ANY kind - no electricity, no hospitals, no schools
                            - slavery would still be going on (well, it does somewhere)
                            They would be still living as they lived 200, 500, 1000 years ago. Perhaps even those with vast natural resources, because you need stable gouverment to attract investments.
                            "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
                            I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
                            Middle East!

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                            • #15
                              If Africa really wanted to develop then they'd follow Asia's example. Fight corruption, promote trade, seek foreign investment, invest in infastructure instead of the military. Greater free trade and an end to Western farm subsidies would also help.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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