World Wars

[BeBMan]

Please post about wars that have been labeled "world wars" except those "official" WWI/II

Not just the war, but some background (link or book recommendations would be nice if possible )

I know of these:

- Peloponnesian War: Athens vs. Sparta - an early example and makes of course sense only when using the quite limited "world" view of ancient Hellas (Hellenes there and "Barbarians" elsewhere).

- Seven Years War: this one is probably most often mentioned as a kind of WW

- Russo-Japanese War 1904/05: there's an (although of course debatable) view that labels this war "WW Zero" because of several reasons. One is the introduction of many methods, technologies etc. that became later characteristic for WWI (first concentrated use of "industrial" weapons, early trench warfare, battleships - although pre-dreadnought types and more). Other reasons deal with global implifications of this (de facto still regional) war.

[lord of the mark]

Re: World Wars

Originally posted by BeBro
Please post about wars that have been labeled "world wars" except those "official" WWI/II

Not just the war, but some background (link or book recommendations would be nice if possible )

I know of these:

- Peloponnesian War: Athens vs. Sparta - an early example and makes of course sense only when using the quite limited "world" view of ancient Hellas (Hellenes there and "Barbarians" elsewhere).

Nah. IIRC Thuycidides rightly, the Greeks were VERY conscious that Persia was in the "world", was stronger than any given Greek state, and was watching "their" war closely.

Better candidate - The "seventy years war" Hapsburgs vs Dutch, English, and French, 157? to 1648. Id say that rather than simply TYW, to capture the more global aspects, focused on Dutch vs Iberians in the Americans and Indian Ocean.

[BeBMan]

Re: Re: World Wars

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Nah. IIRC Thuycidides rightly, the Greeks were VERY conscious that Persia was in the "world", was stronger than any given Greek state, and was watching "their" war closely.

Of course they were aware of that, but esp. Thuycidides also mentions that the PelWar was the biggest thing for Hellas and part of the barbarians (which includes Persia), and continues like "so to speak for the biggest part of all mankind" (dunno how it's exactly worded in english-language editions)

[Will9]

Also the American Revolution. The three largest Empires (Enland, France, and Spain) in the world all were involved.

[Zkribbler]

I'm reading a book now that opines that the American Revolution was merely the first part of the "Atlantic Revolution" that took place from the Alligenies to the Elbe from Sweden to Terra del Fuego, from Italy to Ireland....Bolivar, Robespierre, Kusciouko [sp?] were all key figures in it.

[Proteus_MST]

Don´t know if the people of this time themselves did it,
but the wars of Alexander could be called a world war.

After all he (successfully) waged war against all of the known great civilizations of this time including persia (although not all at once but one after the ofter).

Same goes btw. (even more) for the wars of the diadochi where the Diadochs (rulers of parts of Alexanders kingdom) after the assasination of Alexanders son fought among themselves for the heritage of Alexander.

[Deity Dude]

Cold War or (Communism vs The West) = WWIII (1945 - 1993)

Significant Events: Formation of the Iron Curtain - Atomic Bomb used on Japan - Communist Revolution in China - Berlin Crisis - Korean Conflict - Cuban Missile Crisis - Russian overthrow of Hungarian Revolution - Vietnam Conflict - Pueblo Incident - Nicaruaga/El Salvador - Solidarity Movement - Successful Eastern European Independence Movements - Dissolution of the Soviet Union

Islamic Fanaticism vs The West = WWIV (1947 - ????)

Significant Events - Formation of Israel - 7 Day War - Iranian Revolution - Iranian Hostage Crisis - Lebanese Civil War - Iraq/Iran War - Formation of Taliban Government - WTC Bombing - 3 Embassy Bombings in Africa - Attack on the Cole - 9/11 - Gulf War II - Afghanistan (US vs Taliban) - Madrid Bombings

[Barnabas]

Those wars from the XVIII century were real world wars, fought in europe,and the american and asian colonies.

Wars between Spain and England would be fought in the caribean, Florida, Cuba, Panama, Cartagena in Colombia, Buenos aires etc
I think in the french indian war the english even conquered Manila in the philippines. The same with the french fighting in india against the english.

And you could say the first world war was the war between the dutch and portuguese, fighting from brazil to africa to india to china to the malay archipelago to japan

World wars were common till Napoleons defeat, once all american colonies, english and spanish became independent, and with france and england friendly because the germans were a greater enemy, there were no more big world wars, had to wait till ww1 to see a conflict as global.

[Zkribbler]

Islamic Fanaticism vs The West = WWIV (1947 - ????)
I don't understand most of your examples...

Significant Events -
Formation of Israel - War limited to Palestine area
6 Day War - ditto
Iranian Revolution - Internal Iranian affair
Iranian Hostage Crisis - Took place in Iran; affected U.S.
Lebanese Civil War - Lebanon, Syria & Israel
Iraq/Iran War - Persian Gulf border war
Formation of Taliban Government - Internal Afghani
matter
Gulf War II - Bush & friends v. Hussein

al Qaeda mischief: (1st WTC Bombing - 2 Embassy Bombings in Africa - Attack on the Cole - 9/11 Afghanistan (US vs Taliban) - Madrid Bombings [Plus] al Qaeda attacks within Somalia and within Iraq and instigating Iraqi civil war.
-- World-wide battleground but most nations not involved.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Will9
Also the American Revolution. The three largest Empires (Enland, France, and Spain) in the world all were involved.

regional - the fights only in USA (or am I wrong?)

Originally posted by Deity Dude
Cold War or (Communism vs The West) = WWIII (1945 - 1993)

Significant Events: Formation of the Iron Curtain - Atomic Bomb used on Japan - Communist Revolution in China - Berlin Crisis - Korean Conflict - Cuban Missile Crisis - Russian overthrow of Hungarian Revolution - Vietnam Conflict - Pueblo Incident - Nicaruaga/El Salvador - Solidarity Movement - Successful Eastern European Independence Movements - Dissolution of the Soviet Union

Islamic Fanaticism vs The West = WWIV (1947 - ????)

Significant Events - Formation of Israel - 7 Day War - Iranian Revolution - Iranian Hostage Crisis - Lebanese Civil War - Iraq/Iran War - Formation of Taliban Government - WTC Bombing - 3 Embassy Bombings in Africa - Attack on the Cole - 9/11 - Gulf War II - Afghanistan (US vs Taliban) - Madrid Bombings

I don't see anything islamic and fanatic about defending against israeli land-grabbing policies.

[OzzyKP]

The Mongolian conquests.
The early Islamic conquests.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
The Mongolian conquests.
The early Islamic conquests.

The Mongols didn't reach Africa or the Americas or Australasia.

The Islamic Conquests missed out the Americas and Australasia.

[Will9]

Originally posted by Heresson


regional - the fights only in USA (or am I wrong?)

You are wrong. Although almost all the land fighting was fought in the US, Naval battles had been fought in the East and West Indies and the English Channel was under French and Spainish control for a time until they relized that their ships were not capturing very many English trade ships. There was even a battle on mainland Europe, The Great Siege of Gibralter. At one point the Spainish attacked with 100,000 troops and 48 ships. It also sparked the Second Anglo-Mysore War and the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War.

[Deity Dude]

OK Heresson, like they say in Quiz Show, "I'll take the third part first."

Originally posted by Heresson

I don't see anything islamic and fanatic about defending against israeli land-grabbing policies.

Like many wars, those who end up executing the war are not the ones who were around when it started. And quite often the initial "spark: issue is minor and tangential to the actual conflict.

For Example: I don't think there is anything wrong with Balkan Independence - but that was the spark for WWI.

Or: Germans were probably treated too harshly after WWI. Nothing fanatacial about wanting to change that. But that did lead to Hitler and a fanataical movement that brought about WWII.

Originally posted by Heresson

regional - the fights only in USA (or am I wrong?)

As for the Cold War being Regional; first of all, thats flat out wrong. It was hot at one time or another in probably every continent but Australia and Antartica and threatened to destroy all of mankind on more than 1 occasion.

But even if it were regional as you say, WWI was primarily fought in Central Europe. Does that disqualify WWI?

[Heresson]

Ozzy, very good choices.

Originally posted by molly bloom
The Mongols didn't reach Africa or the Americas or Australasia.

The Islamic Conquests missed out the Americas and Australasia.

Mongols were damn close to Africa themselves (in Palestine /Israel), and their biggest (well, only) opponent in Middle East (mamluks) was located primarly in Africa (Egypt)... It's like to say that ww2 didn't concern North America or Australia, because it wasn't fought on their territory

Australia never really mattered in world history, at least before british colonisation, which is - on larger scale - a very recent matter. It's similar (with all due respect to civs existing there) with Americas before colonisation - it wasn't part of mainstreams of civilisation.

No war concerned Antarctic, too :P

As for the Cold War being Regional; first of all, thats flat out wrong. It was hot at one time or another in probably every continent but Australia and Antartica and threatened to destroy all of mankind on more than 1 occasion.

I wasn't talking about Cold War, but War of American Independance

Will9 - this way we could call ANY colonial war a world war

But even if it were regional as you say, WWI was primarily fought in Central Europe. Does that disqualify WWI?

no, because it was a war fought on many land fronts (western, italian, eastern, caucasian, in colonies) by the greatest powers in the world, who btw controlled one way or another the rest of the world.
If Trinidad & Tobago teamed up with San Marino and Bhutan and invaded Fiji islands, we would not call it a world war