Carnage on America's Highways?

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Arrian
Um, yes it is, which is the point of the second half of my post. Even if we drive 1.5x as much, we still have more fatalities relative to population. Factor in things like more drunk drivers (if true), lack of motorcycle helmet laws, and other such things (I dunno, more SUVs?) and you may have explained the gap.

With drunk drivers, we have started another get tough campaign here to crack down so I am assuming it is becoming a problem again...

Granted, wearing a motorcycle helmet is law here and motorcyclists I think already make up a disproportionate amount of the dead (about 20%?) so that must definitely be a contributing factor...

Obviously you must have a greater proportion of SUVs than us, but we are making great strides in catching up - especially in the cities...

The idea that somehow UK drivers so much better than USians that their superiority would explain the disparity in fatalities strikes me as silly. Which, of course, is why MOBIUS made the argument in the first place.

When you're looking at 2 or 3 times the death rate by population it seems highly plausible to me...

Drivers here are crappy, make no mistake. But there is more to it. Further, having been to the UK on multiple occasions, I don't have the impression that drivers over there are so much better.

Yes, we certainly have plenty of crappy drivers here, however it is the proportion of crappy drivers we are talking about and the manner in which they are crappy: Crappy Americans seem to drive like they're asleep at the wheel - over here our crappy drivers tend to be discourteous ****ers that try to cut you up or drive up your arse when you're already well over the speed limit on the motorway...

Oh and young drivers: I swear when I was younger I wasn't as reckless as they are now! I'm not just saying that, insurance stats bear me out. I have quite a few younger friends and they joke about the number of cars they've written off like it's routine or something!

Maybe it's because you're cars have been dumbed down into automatics that annoyingly beep at you everytime you leave the door open or the lights on = braindead drivers...

edit: driving conditions are conceiveably another factor... more snow/ice over here, wouldn't you say?

I totally agree with you on this point, 90% of the time our weather is not extreme...

However that in itself is a hazard because whenever it is extreme, people here don't know how to deal with it and hence the moment a bit of snow falls accidents increase - at least in the US everyone is experienced in extreme weather driving...

But bad weather is not an excuse in itself: You drive accordingly for the conditions.

So if you crash in bad weather, you are IMO just as stupid or a poor driver as if you crashed in perfect visibility.

I once circumnavigated Iceland (>1000miles), in blizzard conditions half the time often with near zero visibility and fully icy roads - I'd never driven in those conditions before, but it didn't especially tax my abilities and we got round fine.

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, there's something about BMW drivers as well...why are they such arseholes?

[rah]

Originally posted by MOBIUS

I totally agree with you on this point, 90% of the time our weather is not extreme...

However that in itself is a hazard because whenever it is extreme, people here don't know how to deal with it and hence the moment a bit of snow falls accidents increase - at least in the US everyone is experienced in extreme weather driving...

That's like the South here. Half an inch of snow and they close a city down. And another 1000 accidents happen.

[MOBIUS]

Well, I'm glad we've all finally proved that the Americans are indeed stupid/crap drivers - especially when compared with the British...

Once we got past the fallacy that Americans drive far more than the British (1.2-1.5x more), we came up against excuses such as not having to wear motorcycle helmets and extreme weather. But then we can successfully prove that even those excuses are borne out of stupidity/crap driving, so really only prove my point rather than successfully argue against it...

Therefore if Americans are roughly three times more likely to be involved in fatal accidents as a proportion of their population compared to the British, but drive about 1.2-1.5x more - we can say that Americans are roughly twice as crap at driving than the British, which seems about right given my experience...

ONS

The United Kingdom has a very good record for road safety compared with most other EU countries. In 2004 it had one of the lowest road death rates in the EU, at 5.6 per 100,000 population. The UK rate was also lower than the rates for other industrialised nations such as Japan (6.96 per 100,000 population), and substantially lower than that of Australia (8.15) and the United States (14.66).

As I said before, of all the countries I have actually driven in (14), the drivers in the UK have easily been the best...

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, there's something about BMW drivers as well...why are they such arseholes?

Someone should do a PhD in this to find out the answer. It's definitely true that when a tailgater tries to mount your exhaust pipe when you're already pegging it, it is usually a Beamer.

My theory is that these are all the guys who used to have an XR3i 15-20 years ago.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Average person here drives about 10,000 miles a year...

If you want a proper comparison:

The US has 204 million cars, the UK we have 32 million. Average US mileage is 12,500 miles, in the UK it's 10,000.

So...

US miles / year = 2,550 billion
UK miles / year = 320 billion
US fatalities / year = 43,443
UK fatalities / year = 3,201

US fatalities / billion miles = 17
UK fatalities / billion miles = 10

All stats best I could find on the internet, except MOBIUS quoted the 10,000 miles figure and I used it...

[Jon Miller]

How does fatalities compare to accidents?

JM

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Yeah, there's something about BMW drivers as well...why are they such arseholes?

That's a damned good question. My wife and I have been discussing that one lately. It's uncanny how often the over-aggressive shmuck who is attempting to climb into my trunk when there is no way for me to get out of his way is driving a BMW. FACT!

As for crazy young drivers... I'd be a total hypocrit if I complained. I was bat**** insane from 16 to about 20.

-Arrian

p.s. The South + snow is terrifying. I had the, um, pleasure to be in North Carolina for Christmas several years ago when a mini blizzard hit (~6 inches of snow fell in a few hours) and wow! It was pandemonium.

[Cort Haus]

Interesting to hear that Break My Windows are driven by the same breed of loony in the 'States as well.

[MOBIUS]

I'll fourth that!

Nearest I've come to getting knocked off my bicycle was getting cut up at speed by a Bloody Moronic ****er - the idiot must've passed within 6 inches before me from absolutely nowhere just before Christmas!

They are the scourge of the highways - the world over, it seems!

[Dis]

Originally posted by MikeH


If you want a proper comparison:

The US has 204 million cars, the UK we have 32 million. Average US mileage is 12,500 miles, in the UK it's 10,000.

So...

US miles / year = 2,550 billion
UK miles / year = 320 billion
US fatalities / year = 43,443
UK fatalities / year = 3,201

US fatalities / billion miles = 17
UK fatalities / billion miles = 10

All stats best I could find on the internet, except MOBIUS quoted the 10,000 miles figure and I used it...

I doubt most British drive 10,000 miles. Most don't even own a car do they?

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Dis


I doubt most British drive 10,000 miles. Most don't even own a car do they?

The maths roughly assumes the average Briton who does own a car, drives 10,000 miles, it then assumes 32 million (or about 54% of total population) Britons owns a car.

[Dauphin]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/pdf/dft_transstats_pdf_026290.pdf

Says 679 billion passenger kilometres by car in 2004.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/downloadable/dft_transstats_611960.pdf

Says 500 billion vehicle kilometres (312 billion vehicle miles) in 2005.

[Provost Harrison]

See, now look what you've done - you've set the forensic accountant off now

[BlackCat]

Funny driving