New EU members

[Pekka]

Ectyh, and still, the networth is much less, besides, Germany is facing some horrible challenges.. then again those are same with us. good luck with it, it's going to be a battle (unemployment etc). Hopefully your politicians will admit there si a problem and try to do something, instead of doing
'politics'.

[Pekka]

ecthy, that is, to my understanding, wealth accumulated. As in the property, savings, everything combined. As in, what really matters.

So, what, for example we have to deal with, is the fact that we can not accumulate wealth. That's a real problem. Even though salaries coudl be higher, the accumulation of any kind of wealth is down and it should be better than that quite obviously.

[BeBMan]

Mighty Merkel is EU boss currently

[Pekka]

Yeah think about that.. And I'm not like even.. I don't like Merkel, but then again, it's like average to me, we could do a WHOLE lot worse.

The down side is, I don't see a person, or the leader, who would actually be close to satisfying. We are lacking leadership, and we are going head first to the unknown. I don't like those odds, we need some sense in this thing.

[Ecthy]

Pekka for leader of the European Union.

Ecthy for leader of the European Core Federation.

[BeBMan]

Huzzah!

[Pekka]

I'm so smart that I'd know to stay out of it . It's like accepting the leadership of the ship that is already sinking.

But you can be the core federation leader, I'm sure that's good. Maybe there's another spot for me.. maybe a.. politician watchdog. I'm that guy. We just watch the policy making, and bark.

edit: and when I'm talking about shinking ship.. I don't mean we are going to be a third world region soon. We are blessed with wealth in these regions together, so we are able to waste our money quite a bit before we notice something just isn't working and everybody is sad. Kind of like a bad day in the kindergarten. Everybody just depressed.

[Winston]

Romania and Bulgaria, welcome to the party.

The music passed out a while ago and we ran out of beer. The hot chicks never showed up, but feel free to take as many cheap shots at those intolerable Frenchmen as you want. That is, after all, what having a good time is all about.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Pekka
the pic again

Can you send me that Excel sheet? Or give me a link to it?

It's certainly interesting, this "net worth" statistic. I've never seen it used in economic comparisons before. I'd like to check out where my country stands on it.

[Datajack Franit]

Bulgaria







Romania

[Ecthy]

Yeah, I always felt a connection between Romania and the Romulans. Why that is I do not know

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Drogue

QFAboutF***ingTime. From a purely selfish Western-Europe perspective, the EU involves large transfers of money to deprived areas, mostly in poorer countries; the CAP, which I'm guessing will help Eastern European agriculture a lot at the expense of African and Asian economics; and hordes of people emigrating to richer countries in the false hope of a better life.

You have a point about unemployment. It sucks to be an English plumber with so many Polish competition. English manual labour is also seeing or going to see their wages fall as result of competition.

However, your other point, about EU transferring large amounts, well, it's not that drastic.

EU budget is ~100 billion Euros. Collected in one place, it's a lot. However given the size of European economy, it is peanuts. IIRC it's something on the order of 1% of European GDP. That's everything, agriculture, infrastructure, etc. Proper centralized ountries spemd much more: from 20 to 60% of GDP.

So, even if EU transfers seem large when summed, the net payer countries are not fundamentally weakened by them.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ecthy
What is "net worth"?

"Net worth" = all assets (bank accounts + real estate + shares of stock + packs of chewing gum) minus all debts (mortgages + student loans + credit cards + IOUs).

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Doesn't that also happen with immigration? Poles moving here work at higher wages than they would in Poland (thus more "equality"), decreasing the price of goods, and creating unemployment for the Western Europeans. Same effects as with mere free trade, no?

Yes. However from a Western-European perspective, it's still bad for us. Free trade does equalise somewhat, but my bet is free trade has more efficiency benefit and less negative effects for the richer countries than the rights to work anywhere.

From an EU-wide perspective, free movement is good. From a global perspective, the jury's still out, as trade and movement blocs are bad for everyone not in them.

[Heresson]

I'm glad you say that, but Poland is one of the strongest supporters of a weak economics-only Europe.

since when? Well, perhaps since the last elections, but even now, our gouverment actually sees Europe as an union based on a common culture (based on christianity), unlike f.e. the French

Yes, except that our national accounts show clearly this happens better the other way. We don't export much to Eastern Europe, yet import a lot from there. Free trade is good, don't get me wrong, but we have far more immigrants than extra jobs due to EU expansion. A free trade area I would agree with, it's the free employment and EU money that I disagree with.

Perhaps it's the case of Britain, but not Germany and other countries; well, it's not Eastern Europe's fault Britain can not take advantage of its opportunities
Free trade is something, at least at the start, more profitable for the more developed countries. With pass of time, new, foreign-led companies will settle in the poorer states, but until then, local companies will fall or be bought.
Also, free trade means also free trade of properties. It is because of UE joining that properties' values, especially in Warsaw, rose to european level, while wages remain a couple times smaller. If I want to afford even a small house, I have not much choise but to emigrate for some time, unless I am very very lucky
or have one of few qualifications that pay off (and then, You need money to start your buiseness as well, and it's not that easy here)

Yes on the latter, but a huge big NO on the former. What we need is sustainability. Immigrants come now and pay taxes, which helps the current demographics, but is storing up future problems when the next generation retire. We don't need a continually growing population at all, that's unsustainable. What we need is a stable population and a stable workers/non-workers demographic. Immigration solves the latter and wrecks the former.

I agree with You - I believe western Europe should stop playing dumb & virtuous, and support its own population growth. Until then, however, You have no choice. You do not have a policy supporting it, and from the time of implementing it to the results one generation at least will have to pass. Yet, the choice of some companies is to fill their factories in Britain with immigrants or to move the factory outside Britain