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  • A thread on Caste


    बराह्मणो.अस्य मुखमासीद बाहू राजन्यः कर्तः | ऊरूतदस्य यद वैश्यः पद्भ्यां शूद्रो अजायत ||
    This is probably the single most controversial verse of the Hindu vedas. It is the only Vedic reference to the caste system and its origin. It states:


    12 The Brahman was his mouth, of both his arms was the Rajanya made.
    His thighs became the Vaisya, from his feet the Sudra was produced.
    An explanation would be in order.

    The Brahman refers to the priestly class, the Rajanya to the administrative and warrior class, the Vaisya to the merchants and traders and craftsmen and artisans and (sometimes) farmers, and the Sudra to the manual labourer (of any type).


    Pre-modern commentators used this as a justification for a caste system, and more importantly, caste-based discrimination. Modern commentators, on the other hand (like Swami Ramdev, or the people involved with the RSS or VHP), use the very same verse as a justification for equality. The logic goes that the same way that a person would not discriminate against his own foot, and would be equally horrified if his arms or feet were to be cut off, therefore discrimination on caste grounds is wrong.


    The problem is, the people who listen would have listened anyway, and the people who are prejudiced don't listen. Now it's like an inverted situation - all the orthodox bastions of Hinduism have accepted equality of the castes, but the prejudiced among the masses are not willing to follow suit.

    This thread is meant simply as a discussion on caste and casteism, and if anyone has any more questions regarding caste, feel free to ask.

  • #2
    Let he who is without sin caste the first stone.

    Hold on, that's not right. Close.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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    • #3
      Yet more religious madness...
      Speaking of Erith:

      "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't know much about it. Only the usual occidental prejudices...
        But I’m a curious monkey!

        How does it work really? At the present time? I mean, the caste system exists today? How it affects the access to University, jobs, marriage, love, and so on?

        Well, you said I should ask...
        RIAA sucks
        The Optimistas
        I'm a political cartoonist

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        • #5
          One thing I forgot to mention - this occurs in an allegorical hymn. The verses after this one are revealing:


          13 The Moon was gendered from his mind, and from his eye the Sun had birth;
          Indra and Agni from his mouth were born, and Vayu from his breath.
          14 Forth from his navel came mid-air the sky was fashioned from his head
          Earth from his feet, and from his car the regions. Thus they formed the worlds.
          All this is in reference to one aspect of the primordial consciousness sacrificing another to create the world. The whole thing is a gigantic metaphor. People have been arguing over it for millennia.

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          • #6
            Butt out, Buttinski.
            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Aro

              I don't know much about it. Only the usual occidental prejudices...
              But I’m a curious monkey!
              It is precisely to address these prejudices that I opened this thread.

              Originally posted by Aro

              How does it work really? At the present time? I mean, the caste system exists today? How it affects the access to University, jobs, marriage, love, and so on?

              Well, you said I should ask...
              At the present date - in urban India, about the only time it matters when there is an arranged marriage - most people prefer others of the same caste. This is due to the fact that people from similar cultural, economic, and social backgrounds are more likely to have a workable marriage. The old prejudices still linger in some people from the older generation. How much they exist in the new is yet to be seen. As far as I'm concerned, it's a thing of the past, best left buried.

              In rural India, it is a major problem. There is still a lot of discrimination, and it hurts.


              27 % of seats in all colleges and universities are reserved for formerly untouchable people, and 23 % for OBCs (Other Backward Castes - basically, village landowners who were too attached to their land holdings to move to the cities, and thus got left behind). Even if there are no qualified candidates for these posts, they still cannot be filled by upper caste people. This is one of the most ridiculous policies the government has instituted, because academic standards are being lowered to allow these people admission, and this totally ruins the academic experience for people like me, who get in on merit alone.

              People from the upper castes have to compete for 50 % of the seats, whereas a lower-caste person with half the score of the lowest-scoring high-caste guy is given admission into some branch which even top scorers from the general category have a tough time getting into. This policy is basically a vote-grab.

              On the job front - AFAIK, there is not discrimination as such, though a few old people may still be there causing trouble. The market is far too competitive to allow a company to discriminate. In all the "sunshine" sectors of the economy, there is too much demand for skilled people for discrimination to exist. In rural areas, there is still the problem of discrimination in jobs.

              In interesting thing is that all the Hindutva organisations have supported a movement to allow people from all castes, and people without caste, to become priests in temples, and they have won that right for them. The opposition, ironically enough, came from temples where the priest was traditionally lower caste, and did not want their little monopoly to be opened to everyone else. There was a temple in Orissa which denied entry to lower caste people, but again the Hindutva people intervened and worked out a compromise so that everyone would be happy and people from all castes could worship. I don't think there is a single major or medium-sized temple in India today which denies entry on the basis of caste.

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              • #8
                Why can't you guys celebrate the New Year like normale people?
                I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

                Asher on molly bloom

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                • #9
                  Says the guy with the hideous avatar.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Don't be evil to Etchy
                    I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

                    Asher on molly bloom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Swami Ramdev is hardly a theologian. That's like asking for religious advice from Tom Cruise or getting your political views from Ben Affleck.
                      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                      "Capitalism ho!"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DaShi
                        Swami Ramdev is hardly a theologian. That's like asking for religious advice from Tom Cruise or getting your political views from Ben Affleck.
                        Do you know what "swami" means?
                        Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                        Do It Ourselves

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                        • #13
                          He's not a real Swami though.
                          “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                          "Capitalism ho!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DaShi
                            Swami Ramdev is hardly a theologian. That's like asking for religious advice from Tom Cruise or getting your political views from Ben Affleck.
                            He is very definitely a theologian. He has spent quite a few years studying Indian philosophy and religion.

                            You can read more about it here.

                            Getting your news about Indian swamis from you is like asking an Al Qaeda guy his opinion of astrophysics.

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                            • #15
                              Are you saying that terrorists can't be astrophysicists?
                              No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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