The year is about to end so I'll do some bashing

[Drake Tungsten]

You admit to not having read it initially well enough to understand.

Guilty as charged. I'm not exactly sure how I was supposed to know that "pride" and "national ego" were the same thing, or that they were both equivalent to "jingoism", but whatever. I've been suitably chastened and shall surely never read or respond to your posts again...

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
So now "pride", "national ego" and "jingoism" all mean the same thing? I guess I didn't understand what I was referencing. In my defense, it is hard to understand something that doesn't make the least bit of sense to someone who expects words to mean what they usually do and doesn't expect an invented term to mean the same thing as several everyday terms with different meanings. Hell, I'm not even sure that is possible...

You are the one who has said what I was talking about is "jingoism". I did not make that label, you did. If you are admitting it doesn't apply, then it is your own improperly applied label.

As for "pride" and "national ego", they are not simple one definition terms that you should expect to always mean the same thing regardless of context. For an hyperbolic example, consider that "pride" can also mean a group of lions. And there are more subtle variations on usage as well. Check a dictionary:

pride /praɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, prid·ed, prid·ing.
–noun
1. a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.
2. the state or feeling of being proud.
3. a becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem.
4. pleasure or satisfaction taken in something done by or belonging to oneself or believed to reflect credit upon oneself: civic pride.
5. something that causes a person or persons to be proud: His art collection was the pride of the family.
6. the best of a group, class, society, etc.: This bull is the pride of the herd.
7. the most flourishing state or period: in the pride of adulthood.
8. mettle in a horse.
9. Literary. splendor, magnificence, or pomp.
10. a group of lions.
11. sexual desire, esp. in a female animal.
12. ornament or adornment.
–verb (used with object)
13. to indulge or plume (oneself) in a feeling of pride (usually fol. by on or upon): She prides herself on her tennis.
—Idiom
14. pride and joy, someone or something cherished, valued, or enjoyed above all others: Their new grandchild is their pride and joy.

As for relating "pride" and "national ego" Check a thesaurus:

Main Entry: pride
Part of Speech: noun 1
Definition: self-esteem
Synonyms: amour propre, delight, dignity, ego, ego trip, egoism, egotism, face, gratification, happiness, honor, joy, pleasure, pridefulness, repletion, satisfaction, self-admiration, self-confidence, self-glorification, self-love, self-regard, self-respect, self-satisfaction, self-sufficiency, self-trust, self-worth, sufficiency, vainglory
Antonyms: shame

Then check my use of "pride":

"There seems to be a prevalent notion in the US that our military might is something to be proud of, a defining trait even."

(I actually used "proud", but you responded with "pride", which I would agree is a proper enough interpretation.)

Given my use of "pride" in relation to a feeling held by the general populace (ie. nation), and that the definition encompasses "civic pride" (definition 4), "national ego" is a rather apt synonym.

Language is a flexible thing. I really hope you don't ever run into someone who takes pride in their lions...

[Aeson]

ooops... dp

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Major Montana Max

Gentlemen, I love var.

Gentlemen, I... Love Var.

Gentlemen. I SO LOVE VAR.

I love holocaust. I love blitzkrieg. I love onslaught. I love defensive.

I love besiegement. I love breakthrough. I love retreat. I love mop-up. I love vithdrawal.

On the plains, in the streets, in the trenches, on the prairies, on the tundra, in the desert, on the sea, in the sky, in the mud, in the svamp.

I cherish each und every vay var can be vaged on this earth.

I love the thunderous roar of all artillery arrayed at the battle line firing at once, as it blows avay the enemy line.

My heart dances ven the bodies of enemy troops are hurled into the air in pieces from a direct hit.

I love it ven a tiger tank smashes un enemy tank vith its 88mm cannon.

It left a varm feeling in my chest vhen the enemy soldiers vould jump screaming from the blazing tank, only to be mowed down by machine gun fire.

I love it ven the infantry ranks owerrun the enemy line, bayonets first.

It moves me ven I remember the sight of a new recruit in a state of panic, stabbing un already dead enemy soldier over und over.

I can hardly contain myself, thinking of hanging the defeatist deserters from streetlights.

Und it ist superb ven the enemy prisoner screams in time... vith the shriek escaping from the Schmeisser I hold as I mow him down.

I even remember distinctly the 4.8 ton shrapnel shells from the Dora pulveriszing whole city blocks. Vhere the pitiful resistance fighters heroically stood up against us vith their assorted small arms.

I love the RUSSKIE armoured divisions throwing us into disorder

It ist a very very sad thing ven the villages they should haf protected to the death are overrun und the vomen und children are violated und killed.

I love being CRUSHED und ANNIHILATED by the English und American war

Their creeping about on the ground like vermin, chased by the Jabo, ist the height of humiliation.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Aeson
Speaking from the perspective of my own up-bringing here in the US...

There seems to be a prevalent notion in the US that our military might is something to be proud of, a defining trait even. (To go along with the notion that we are the land of the free... "home of the brave"). I remember often having discussions with other kids (and sometimes adults) about the prowress of our military, how it could beat other nation's militaries, how it had "saved the world" from Nazis and Commies. As a kid raised in that environment, I naturally just took on the same viewpoint as everyone else seemed to hold. And I remember even day-dreaming about serving the country, being a war hero... that sort of thing. Even in something silly like the Olympics I'd cheer for people I had no idea existed a minutes before... just because of a symbol they wear. And of course it was a great victory to beat the USSR... our "enemy".

As I grew older, and especially as I grew detached from that community, I started having differing ideas about the whole that, as is to be expected. If I had fit in better with those around me, I'd probably still have much the same mindset as those who wave the flag, think our foreign policy is for the good of the world, and that freedom is something Americans have and the rest of the world needs us for.

You stand up in class every day, put your hand over your heart, and swear an oath to your country. Then some ******* politician who can't do his job properly (keeping us safe first and foremost) gets us into an unnecessary war, and it happens because of the instilled idea that unquestioning loyalty is a good thing. Anyone who speaks out against the war is unpatriotic. At least until it's going really badly, and has become obvious we never should have been there (at least in that manner) in the first place... even then though you get labelled still. That's how it happens. Mental conditioning. Mob mentality. (And not just in the US... virtually any war is founded upon the same principles of unquestioned loyalty to the group.)

China's the exact same way. I can't tell you how many times young people there have told me how glorious it would be to be in China's great army. In this case, it comes from a lot of rewriting of history.

It's not just a US phenomenom. However, it's unfortunately common in major powers. Thus, we end up in so many wars.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by DaShi


China's the exact same way. I can't tell you how many times young people there have told me how glorious it would be to be in China's great army. In this case, it comes from a lot of rewriting of history.

It's not just a US phenomenom. However, it's unfortunately common in major powers. Thus, we end up in so many wars.

What sort of rewriting of history have you found in China?

[LordShiva]

China rewriting history??! Nevarr!!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by LordShiva
China rewriting history??! Nevarr!!

I like reading accounts of re-written history! I can't remember the most amusing examples from China though

[Q Classic]

The Military-Industrial Complex

Providing jobs to Americans since its inception.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Geronimo


I like reading accounts of re-written history! I can't remember the most amusing examples from China though

We had a thread on it awhile back. One of the most amusing is how Mao singlehandedly drove the Japanese invaders from China. Of course, you have to remember China never started a war, but won them all.

Really, the Chinese put the Japanese to shame when it comes to history revision. The Japanese just get more attention, because they're not poor little victims

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
From now on how about this? People get in a bind, call Ethiopia, not the USA.
Pretty good idea, huh?

Ethipoia can't put the price of help at the level of economic ruin like some countries can

[Pekka]

Originally posted by TCO
I was responding to your question. There is a point mixed in with the snark. Don't be so sensative. It's a legit question. I'm answering it. Sit and learn, grasshopper.

well well, I apologize, my patience is not at the level of the masters yet :bows:

[Pekka]

Obviously this discussion went to the wrong direction, I'm feeling people are doing defending of US policy, rather than debating the idea of constant war. We can just as well forget US and come up with another example. Mostly, it's usually superpowers that are in constant war. There are plenty of reasons why this happens. It's not just people like war, which was my point of interest.

Of course, conflicts of interests are unavoidable, and sometimes you need to defend those interests. Even self interest. What, so you're NOT going to defend your own interest, that is in conflict? That's the last step of losing the superpower status. So, there's obviously going to be conflict, as long as there are superpowers. But there's always going to be conflicts none of the less.

I just find it interesting, the idea of constant war. It has got something to do with jingoism and all that jazz, but that's not interesting to me either. It also has nothing to do with 'supporting the troops' or what ever.

I also do feel that unless a power is willing to be brutal, it won't last as a superpower too long. Simply because of the amount of conflicts, it will be ridden by internal conflicts as well as external.

A power can realistically hold their strength in one region at a time. For example, no one in Asia will challenge China, and no one has realistically challenged China for a LOOOOONG time. Their claim to superpower status has been, for a long time now, been economical. And it's getting there, but before that was an issue, they were strong in all areas, especially cultural.

Of course, when Mao Zedong came and ****ed it all up for the Chinese, they were isolated and all that stuff. But they're coming out again, they relaly never lost anything, except the ball of economy with their isolation.

This is also an interesting thing, if US wishes to isolate themselves, they will not be a superpower for too long, that's my opinion. Then again, there is no country that will be a superpower for too long. People who disagree are people like Hitler, who thinks it's realistical to like.. dominate the whole world. It's not possible, that's why those people are insane.

[Spec]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
From now on how about this? People get in a bind, call Ethiopia, not the USA.
Pretty good idea, huh?

No one ever calls you, you guys just show up when ever you wish. Like the annoying neighbor.

Spec.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Pekka
CONSTANT STATE OF WAR.

Its the natural order of things. Natural selection and all that jazz.


Or are you one of those creationistas.