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**SlowwHand** · December 18, 2006, 20:28

Is that how you interpret that news?

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 20:29

Here is anther article supporting this from the Standford Computer Forum

Computer science ‘still a good career,’ leader of job migration task force says

BY BRIAN D. LEE

Students pursuing information technology careers but worried about the offshoring of jobs have nothing to fear, according to a report presented Nov. 2 to academics and members of the Stanford Computer Forum, an industrial affiliates program.

"There is a huge mismatch between perception and reality," Rice University Professor Moshe Vardi said. "There are more IT jobs now than there were six years ago at the height of the IT boom."

Vardi presented results from a study on the global migration of software jobs commissioned by the Association for Computing Machinery, the world's oldest and largest educational and scientific computing society.

He co-chaired a task force of economists, social scientists and computer scientists who spent a year reviewing all the available data on the global impact of offshoring for the information technology industry to reveal computing is still a viable field of study and work.

"IT is still a good career," Vardi said. "We have nothing to fear but the fear of competition itself."

Previous speculative data created the belief that jobs would not be waiting for computer science graduates, he said. But the picture is bright upon closer look at the increase in salaries and job openings. Figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics indicate companies are creating new IT jobs as fast as or faster than they are exported overseas, he said. As information technology becomes more pervasive in society, the report predicts the number of jobs applying computer skills will increase in areas that still have low IT intensity, such as construction, healthcare and retail trade.

"The salary for application programmer has continued to increase every year since 2001," he added.

The report described offshoring as a symptom of globalization. Just as advances in shipping technology opened up the world agricultural market, advances and standards in information technology have enabled the export of jobs overseas, Vardi said. "You can now eat bananas from Chile; you couldn't do it before you had air shipping," he said. "Now, communication technology enables the shipping of labor."

Some of the emotional challenges people faced during the Industrial Revolution are similar to what we are experiencing today, Vardi said. We are undergoing a period of change, and it is best to accept it, he said. "Offshoring is like the winter. You don't ask if it is good or bad—you ask what do you do about it. The answer is you dress warmly."

Without investing in research and development, a technology leader like the United States could lose its dominant position, Vardi cautioned. "We have to innovate or die."

Restrictive policies for foreign exchange students also could hurt the United States, Vardi said. "There is no question the U.S. has done as well as it has in IT because it had help from talent around the world," he said. International students are opting to study in Europe or Canada to avoid visa hassles, he noted. "We can't just take it for granted that people will come here."

Vardi also warned of the magnified risks to national security and personal privacy that offshoring creates. In 2006 the U.S. State Department pulled personal computers made in China from a secure network, and in 2003 a Pakistani medical transcriber threatened to post patients' personal records online. "When data flows all around the world, which laws apply?" he asked. "Where do we put the boundary?"

To ensure job security, students must learn business, communication and interpersonal skills, Vardi recommended. The personal touch will become as important as technological expertise, he said.

"There are jobs galore," agreed Suzanne Bigas, assistant director of the Stanford Computer Forum. The forum helps Stanford scholars network with leaders in the computer science industry and provides students the opportunity to meet with company representatives.

"We are busy interviewing well over 1,000 students every fall and spring," Bigas said. "The opportunities are right in front of students, if they just show up."

Brian D. Lee is a science writing intern with the Stanford News Service.

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/november8/vardi-110806.html

link:

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 20:36

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Is that how you interpret that news?

Yes I do. I think this is good for all Computer Science students, including me since my major is Computer Science and I am graduating soon.

**Asher** · December 18, 2006, 20:48

I do work for a major US investment bank -- in the past few years they had outsourced internal investment software development to India. It was a disaster.

The consulting company I work for was actually initially hired to clean up the mess of a software the Indian company made...then they liked it so much they gave us their new projects as well. They don't do India anymore, though they did poach a couple of the competent Indian devs and moved them to NYC.

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 21:00

Originally posted by Asher
I do work for a major US investment bank -- in the past few years they had outsourced internal investment software development to India. It was a disaster.

The consulting company I work for was actually initially hired to clean up the mess of a software the Indian company made...then they liked it so much they gave us their new projects as well. They don't do India anymore, though they did poach a couple of the competent Indian devs and moved them to NYC.

That is the same story I hear from people all the time, when they try to outsource software dev to India most of the time it does not turn out so great.

**DaShi** · December 18, 2006, 21:11

I'm sure that true for a lot of companies. A couple of competent people surrounded by a bunch of morons (usually in charge).

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 21:17

Originally posted by DaShi
I'm sure that true for a lot of companies. A couple of competent people surrounded by a bunch of morons (usually in charge).

But when you throw into the mix the fact they are awake when the US is mostly asleep, communication problems, and differences in culture it makes it really hard.

The software company I work for outsources some small projects to devs in other countries. Their stuff works, but debuging takes twice or three times as long as if we had done it ourselfs or got someone in the US to do it. Every time I try to report a bug to them, they often give us an old verision of the code which still has same problems. Some times they fix one problem, but then a problem they had already fixed pops up again. It gets really furstrating after a while.

**Whoha** · December 18, 2006, 21:58

Jobs of the Future
Alan Tonelson
Friday, June 16, 2006

U.S. EMPLOYMENT TRENDS

# of U.S. information technology jobs lost, March, 2001-March, 2004: 402,800

share of those information technology jobs recovered, April, 2003-Feb., 2006: 18.94%

Source: “Study Reveals ‘Jobless Recovery’ in Tech Labor Market, Despite Industry’s Contrary Claims,” Washtech News, June 13, 2006, http://www.washtech.org/news/inthene...D_Content=5058

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 22:27

Originally posted by Whoha

I read the article you posted, but it does show a general up trend in the number of IT jobs, allthough it show that is it much lower. The only question I have is where did they get their data for the study? I read something that it is from the Center for Urban Economic Development , what is that?

**Jack_www** · December 18, 2006, 22:29

They also paint a very bad picture as far as the IT job market is concerned, but on a personal note, most of the Computer Science students at my school already have jobs even while they are still in school.

**Whoha** · December 18, 2006, 22:51

its a university group, the link to their report is on the washtech site.

**Rufus T. Firefly** · December 18, 2006, 23:29

The new push will be for the US to bring more Indian tech workers here on H1B visas. Tech companies rooutinely complain about their inability to bring in all teh Indians they want, and Bush rcently commissioned a panel to study all visa issues -- but it's being headed by the president of CMU and the CEO of a software company, so you can guess what the priorities are.

So the jobs won't be going overseas, and the next big wave of US immigration will be bringing samosas and vindaloo with it. It's win-win!

**Dinner** · December 19, 2006, 00:49

The net flow is still going to be negative until the ratio between wages and productivity equalize, which won't happen for a very long time. The reason companies are setting up store front in the US is because when this whole outsourcing trade started the Indian and Chinese companies were small fries but now they've grown into major competitors so they want to have representation in all the major markets (North America, Europe, and Asia). This is a function of their past market success and their desire to move from simple outsourcing provider companies into first tir programing companies. To be a first tier company you need to have local representation in all the big markets.

This isn't a bad thing and I continue to think everyone is better off by buying equal services from the lowest cost provider, however, don't get rosy tinted glasses as the key to continuing to have a major US It industry will be to innovate and to found new companies. That's where US programing jobs are going to come from as existing companies continue to bow to market demand and switch labor intensive jobs to lower cost areas.

**Dinner** · December 19, 2006, 00:59

Originally posted by Asher
I do work for a major US investment bank -- in the past few years they had outsourced internal investment software development to India. It was a disaster.

The consulting company I work for was actually initially hired to clean up the mess of a software the Indian company made...then they liked it so much they gave us their new projects as well. They don't do India anymore, though they did poach a couple of the competent Indian devs and moved them to NYC.

Don't get me wrong. You just can't find the cheapest company out there and expect them to do a good job. There are good Indian/Chinese companies and there are bad Indian/Chinese companies so the buyer has to watch out to make sure their buying a quality service and not just the cheapest possible. That said many Indian/Chinese companies do provide a high quality service and on average they cost less then western services of the same quality. That's just supply and demand.

In the end it is still buyer beware and the biggest problem Indian/Chinese companies are going to face is the personal relationship were the western company (who the client has done business with for years) doesn't know if one Indian/Chinese company is a first rate company or a also ran. That's where the local guy gets the advantage and that's why the top Asian companies are now setting up shop in the US and UK. They can then be close to their clients, provide a local presence, and respond more quickly to local developments.

In the end all buyers get better service and lower prices due to the increased competition. That sucks if you are the accountant who must now compete harder for his job but that is good if you are just some company looking to get your accounting done professionally for the lowest price possible.

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Outsourcing of US IT Jobs on the Decline

Outsourcing of US IT Jobs on the Decline

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