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The art of learning

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  • The art of learning

    I think that.. Universities should have mandatory course on how people learn. You'd go on about different styles of learning, that are close to the Uni world.

    It seems to me that almost everyone has a 'terrible' way, I mean it works for some, but others do it because they feel like they have to. And this style is going to class, writing _everything_ down, making tons of notes, and missing half of what the lecturer was saying.

    And most pick up the most irrelevant information possible and write it down, like statistics. As in the lecturer is giving you an example, just an example to place that information in real world and life, so the lecturer goes on about 'well, imagine you have a thousand computers.....'.

    *people writing down 1000 computers*
    .... etc.

    Then when they answer in the exams, or do a term paper or what ever, they're most likely to use that very same example with 1000 computers in it. Or they want to be unique and come up with 500 computers. Or 1000 cars.

    For some, this works. Then the best part is, when I'm curious as to what people write down, because the lecturer said nothing of importance, they give this 'why aren'y YOU writing this down' look. There's an instant eye battle.

    Most go their whole lives with this style of studying and learning. It's quite amazing.. I bet we have some teachers here and psychology majors, who know all about cognitive processing of information and behavioral stuff, but it seems to me, that the majority of people are just there to 'work'. It doesn't matter if you learn something or not, as long as you put out some effort and prove yourself you made detailed notes of everything.

    And most of the times they end up with statistic like information. How wonderful and useful. And as they were concnetrating getting the 'correct figures' of an example, they most likely missed the point. If they woudl have gotten the point, they wouldn't have had to write it down, at least not the stats.

    Then they go on about memorizing it all down, so they can repeat it. They might even get the point, but still, they can only use that one example.

    I think this is a waste of time and money on higher education. I think the world would greatly benefit from teaching people in their very first semester about the different styles of studying, to find your own, and some basic theory on how people learn, because there are tons of different ways to do this.

    The style that works for me is to .. for example check out the topic first, do a 5-10min reading on the subject, even wikipedia will do, just to get an idea what we're talking about. Then attend class if I find it interesting (if not, then I can read something else in the meanwhile that is of interest to me, thus better use of my time), and just enjoy it like a show. Just listen, imagine my own examples, fit this information into what I already know, does it fit there, does it change my earlier knowledge, how can I accept this information. If I accept the info, then I'm most likely to remember it anyway. If it's blah blah blah, boring, irrelevant.. I'm most likely not going to remember it anyway, so what's the point of taking detailed notes.

    So my point is, I think there's a majority of people out there, getting higher learning, yet they don't learn. Some pick up useless statistics. Some can repeat something someone else has said about it. Completely useless, waste of money and time.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    I mean, to many people, it's all about the process, not about learning. I'm doing this process now, and this is called learning so this is what I must do.... ? No! You are processing alright, but that's not equal to learning.

    It is as if people go into.. single node mode, where you have to process (write the info down) but you can't do anything else at the same time, like listening and reflecting this information on what you already know. It's difficult, so would you rather listen and get the goodies, or write it down and miss half of it? The process becomes more important.. hey look at me, I'm not slacking, I'm learning here, doing the process!!

    What really pisses off people is when you have like powerpoint slides up there, and you ask at some point 'hey, can we have these slides available at some point?' and the lecturers are usually more than happy to do it. So there's a big letdown. What?!?! All this work for nothing?! This jerk just made a shortcut, because he is TOO lazy to write his own stuff down!

    Hey, it's not my fault you're an idiot.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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    • #3
      But... I never write lecture notes
      This is Shireroth, and Giant Squid will brutally murder me if I ever remove this link from my signature | In the end it won't be love that saves us, it will be mathematics | So many people have this concept of God the Avenger. I see God as the ultimate sense of humor -- SlowwHand

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      • #4
        I never write them either.

        I don't even carry a notepad with me
        In da butt.
        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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        • #5
          I totally agree. I've always been puzzled why people just write down what's being said word-for-word.

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          • #6
            Me theory is that people like to do the process, and equate that with learning.

            As in, I need to do this in order to learn. Often times, it is the rigorous process during the teaching that distracts you from the actual learning though.
            In da butt.
            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by civman2000
              I totally agree. I've always been puzzled why people just write down what's being said word-for-word.
              Or at all. Why write when you can always photocopy from someone else?
              "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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              • #8
                I think this is not because people are stupid in general. I think this is just lack of knowledge on different styles you can have.

                People also feel guilty if they aren't obedient to the .. idea of the process. Everyone else is writing furiously, I must be doing something wrong by not writing it down?

                Then there's the question of, well, you didn't write it down, how are you going to remember this all in the exams?

                I never study to the exams as in trying to read it all. There's no point. Waste of time. I already learned in the class, so when I got to certain topics, I can say 'I remember this stuff' and check out few details quickly, and test myself. If the test fails, I'll go over the subject in more detail. If I pass it, fine, to the next topic then.

                It's more vital to know the area of the knowledge you are supposed to have. For me, it's even easier to .. pass an exam, to just attend classes and listen, and read the index of the study material and while reading it, trying to relate all those words into the classes and examples. Then build a mental image of the big picture. That's it.

                But of course there are subjects where you kind of need to .. work more with the notepad. For example in math, I find it important to understand the concept as well as some of the details. And even in math, it's far more important to get the idea of the technique at hand. Why is this done?

                So many who hate math think ok here's this thing that is difficult to say and there are these phases I need to do, but what is this going to do anyway? I don't know is the answer where you will not remember it and hate the subject anyway.

                Many math teachers do not emphasize things anyway, their way of teaching is pretty much a process also.. from point A to Z, that's it. That's horrible, that's the way to kill the magic in math for everyone and make sure that only few will actually be interested in it later on.
                In da butt.
                "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Bull**** Pekka. There's only one way to learn: repeat, repeat, repeat and repeat.

                  This hippie nonsense about "magic" of learning is well, nonsense. Those who take notes and work hard get degrees and achieve something, those who seek the "magic" of learning become hippies and live in the commune

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                  • #10
                    But teaching is difficult, it's a great skill. There are some that are great in it, there are lots of people who are bad in it.

                    THe old school way of just trying to remember it all, it just doesn't apply to the modern information age. We can retrieve the details with no effort, if we know how to fetch that info. There's also waaaayyy too much details to remember these days.

                    So the old rewards and punishments goes only so far. As in, the reward is a good grade. The punishment is a poor grade.

                    Persuasive communication is far more important. It's not that we kill all the enviromental distraction so everyone has to focus on the actual word, it's how you portray that word, how you present it, it's even how you carry yourself. Are you motivating these people, are you making it interesting, are you making sense of it..?

                    Lots of teachers, especially in the academic world have this need to explain things correctly, but with so difficult ways that it's stupid. As if the message doesn't get enough respect when you 'dumb it down' a little, just to get everyone on board so we get the picture and can therefore go to the actual difficult stuff?

                    As if there's a need to drop certain percentage out, because they just didn't have the aptitude?

                    Since when did these people have the right to be the gatekeepers of information and innovation? I've had lots of experience with this, there's this one math professor, I just can't get it when he is lecturing. It's tough as hell, because he just doesn't explain anything, sometimes there's NO examples at all with the difficult stuff... etc. And when you ask a question, the answer is the same as the guiding just a second before. I didn't ask that, I didnt' get it then so please explain this in other terms, that was the freaking point.

                    Of course it means you need to be a bit creative and come in terms that you have to explain some stuff so it makes sense. But when ever I'm holding a presentation or teaching something, I make sure that the material is simple enough, it doesn' tmake it obsolete, it makes it more relevant. Let's understand what we are talking about first, then continue forward. It's more important to understand how and why instead of what is this little thing here...

                    Sometimes if I'm facing a difficult math test, and I can't get past a phase and thus go further in it, I just explain what I am supposed to do and the idea of it. Some professors appreciate the fact that you know what's happening, and just because there's one phase you can't hack, the mechanical procedure is just not going forward, .... it doesn't mean you do n't get it. In fact you show you do get it. Sometimes when you get the mechanics of it, it really doesn't mean you get it after all.
                    In da butt.
                    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      VetLegion, no, those who 'repeat repeat repeat' end up in government jobs, getting half the pay the ones who did get it gets

                      Even more so today, if you are dealing with some kind of.. specialized IT field, which you have to do today, general 'IT knowledge' will get you a job carrying monitors and installing operating systems and teaching MS Word, you have to have knowledge on other fields as well. This is very important. So you really need perspective rather than knowing the detailed mechanics of everything, because that's just impossible to remember.

                      Technique > Details

                      Details + Degree = Government job of handling details
                      Knowledge + Experience = Skill!

                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        WTF Pekka?

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                        • #13
                          Well the only way to get knowledge is by very boring proces: repeatedly reading / practicing the stuff you need to learn. No other way.

                          I get the impression you're emphasising understanding over hard work, well, there ain't no understanding without hard work.

                          Except for the geniuses and even they have to learn. Einstein had a degree in physics, he didn't learn his stuff while picking flowers in the field

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                          • #14
                            Re: The art of learning

                            I never take notes. It distracts me from what's going on. For me, the best thing is to first be taking a course that I find interesting, and then to listen attentively and (if possible) participate.


                            Originally posted by Pekka
                            I think that.. Universities should have mandatory course on how people learn.
                            They aren't manditory, by my university has such courses available.
                            Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                            Do It Ourselves

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                            • #15
                              Repition is simply a method of training. A good education should emphasise understanding, creativity, and exploration. It should give you the foundations to develope your self and your interests, and not simply train you to perform specific tasks with efficiency and obedience.
                              Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                              Do It Ourselves

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