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Homeland Security Strikes Again!

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  • Homeland Security Strikes Again!

    Illegal immigration problem? What illegal immgration problem?

    December 15, 2006
    U.S. Is Dropping Effort to Track if Visitors Leave
    By RACHEL L. SWARNS and ERIC LIPTON

    WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 — In a major blow to the Bush administration’s efforts to secure borders, domestic security officials have for now given up on plans to develop a facial or fingerprint recognition system to determine whether a vast majority of foreign visitors leave the country, officials say.

    Domestic security officials had described the system, known as U.S. Visit, as critical to security and important in efforts to curb illegal immigration. Similarly, one-third of the overall total of illegal immigrants are believed to have overstayed their visas, a Congressional report says.

    Tracking visitors took on particular urgency after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, when it became clear that some of the hijackers had remained in the country after their visas had expired.

    But in recent days, officials at the Homeland Security Department have conceded that they lack the financing and technology to meet their deadline to have exit-monitoring systems at the 50 busiest land border crossings by next December. A vast majority of foreign visitors enter and exit by land from Mexico and Canada, and the policy shift means that officials will remain unable to track the departures.

    A report released on Thursday by the Government Accountability Office, the nonpartisan investigative arm of Congress, restated those findings, reporting that the administration believes that it will take 5 to 10 years to develop technology that might allow for a cost-effective departure system.

    Domestic security officials, who have allocated $1.7 billion since the 2003 fiscal year to track arrivals and departures, argue that creating the program with the existing technology would be prohibitively expensive.

    They say it would require additional employees, new buildings and roads at border crossings, and would probably hamper the vital flow of commerce across those borders.

    Congress ordered the creation of such a system in 1996.

    In an interview last week, the assistant secretary for homeland security policy, Stewart A. Baker, estimated that an exit system at the land borders would cost “tens of billions of dollars” and said the department had concluded that such a program was not feasible, at least for the time being.

    “It is a pretty daunting set of costs, both for the U.S. government and the economy,” Mr. Stewart said. “Congress has said, ‘We want you to do it.’ We are not going to ignore what Congress has said. But the costs here are daunting.

    “There are a lot of good ideas and things that would make the country safer. But when you have to sit down and compare all the good ideas people have developed against each other, with a limited budget, you have to make choices that are much harder.”

    The news sent alarms to Congress, where some Republicans and Democrats warned that suspending the monitoring plan would leave the United States vulnerable.

    Representative Dana Rohrabacher, a California Republican who is a departing subcommittee chairman on the House International Relations Committee, said the administration could not say it was protecting domestic security without creating a viable exit monitoring system.

    “There will not be border security in this country until we have a knowledge of both entry and exit,” Mr. Rohrabacher said. “We have to make a choice. Do we want to act and control our borders or do we want to have tens of millions of illegals continuing to pour into our country?”

    Representative Bennie Thompson, the Mississippi Democrat who is set to lead the Homeland Security Committee, also expressed concern.

    “It is imperative that Congress work in partnership with the department to develop a comprehensive border security system that ensures we know who is entering and exiting this country and one that cannot be defeated by imposters, criminals and terrorists,” Mr. Thompson said in a statement Thursday.

    In January 2004, domestic security officials began fingerprint scanning for arriving visitors. The program has screened more than 64 million travelers and prevented more than 1,300 criminals and immigration violators from entering, officials said.

    Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and other officials often call the program a singular achievement in making the country safer. U.S. Visit fingerprints and photographs 2 percent of the people entering the country, because Americans and most Canadians and Mexicans are exempt.

    Efforts to determine whether visitors actually leave have faltered. Departure monitoring would help officials hunt for foreigners who have not left, if necessary. Domestic security officials say, however, it would be too expensive to conduct fingerprint or facial recognition scans for land departures. Officials have experimented with less costly technologies, including a system that would monitor by radio data embedded in a travel form carried by foreigners as they depart by foot or in vehicles.

    Tests of that technology, Radio Frequency Identification, found a high failure rate. At one border point, the system correctly identified 14 percent of the 166 vehicles carrying the embedded documents, the General Accountability Office reported.

    The Congressional investigators noted the “numerous performance and reliability problems” with the technology and said it remained unclear how domestic security officials would be able to meet their legal obligation to create an exit program.

    Some immigration analysts said stepping away from the program raised questions again about the commitment to enforce border security and immigration laws.

    A senior policy analyst at the Center for Immigration Studies, Jessica Vaughn, said the government had long been too deferential to big businesses and travel groups that raised concerns that exit technology might disrupt travel and trade.

    “I worry that the issue of cost is an excuse for not doing anything,” said Ms. Vaughn, whose group advocates curbing immigration. Domestic security officials said they still hoped to find a way to create an exit system at land borders. “We would to do more testing,” a spokesman for the department, Jarrod Agen, said. “We are evaluating the initial tests to determine how to move forward.”
    I know I should say something clever here, but I got nuthin'.

    Worst. Agency. Ever.
    "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

  • #2
    How the **** is fingerprinting people at border crossings going to prevent illegal immigration?
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by KrazyHorse
      How the **** is fingerprinting people at border crossings going to prevent illegal immigration?
      It's not that. Tons of illegal immigration takes th form of people getting legit tourist visas and then refusing to leave, or leaving long past when their supposed to. One of teh most basic thing that Immigration could do -- you'd think -- is keep track of who's in the country and whether or not they're leaving when they're supposed to. But that looks liek too much trouble.

      And I'm blowing a gasket because poor State Dept. flunkies, who actually issue visas, are under tremendous pressure to make sure they don't issue "bad" visas to people who are going to use tham to stay in the States -- but DHS, which should be enforcing immigration law, won't be holding up its end of the equation.
      "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

      Comment


      • #4
        But that looks liek too much trouble.


        Eh.

        There are tens (hundreds?) of millions of people who cross the border every year. I'm not surprised it's unfeasible. Over one billion dollars of trade goes between Canada and the US every day.

        Get used to not knowing, because it's going to stay that way for a while.
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KrazyHorse
          But that looks liek too much trouble.


          Eh.

          There are tens (hundreds?) of millions of people who cross the border every year. I'm not surprised it's unfeasible. Over one billion dollars of trade goes between Canada and the US every day.

          Get used to not knowing, because it's going to stay that way for a while.
          We're used to not knowing. I'm just so sick of DHS's hyper-macho posturing on border and security questions, accompanied by absolutely no follow through.

          The same goddamn thing happened with biometric passports, where we were threatening to require visas from any Western European country that didn't comply with our biometric passport request (a pointless bluff we wouldn't have followed trhough on and only served to piss off our allies) -- and then, when all the countries in question did comply, it turned out DHS wasn't ready with the technology to read their passports anyway.

          Worst. Agency. Ever.
          "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

          Comment


          • #6
            You won't see me arguing that they suck. I had a fun time travelling back and forth between the social security office and the BCIS office; turns out that whoever did my paperwork neglected to write down a number on my form, so the ss people weren't allowed to issue me a SSN. Then, when I went to see the BCIS people they refused to update my form without a letter from the ss people. And when I asked the ss people to write me that letter they refused to do so without a letter requesting their letter. I'm still not sure how I got that worked out, but there's 12 hours of my life I'm not getting back.
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #7
              not only that

              but HLS deemed it necessary to get trees for all the US airports only from Atlanta, GA


              what-trees dont grow the same every where?
              anti steam and proud of it

              CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

              Comment


              • #8
                well, it seems governemntal agencies "work" the same way everywhere in the world.
                "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

                Comment


                • #9
                  WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 — In a major blow to the Bush administration’s efforts to secure borders, domestic security officials have for now given up on plans to develop a facial or fingerprint recognition system to determine whether a vast majority of foreign visitors leave the country, officials say.


                  You would have been pissed had they gone through with it, too (were it possible).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KrazyHorse
                    You won't see me arguing that they suck. I had a fun time travelling back and forth between the social security office and the BCIS office; turns out that whoever did my paperwork neglected to write down a number on my form, so the ss people weren't allowed to issue me a SSN. Then, when I went to see the BCIS people they refused to update my form without a letter from the ss people. And when I asked the ss people to write me that letter they refused to do so without a letter requesting their letter. I'm still not sure how I got that worked out, but there's 12 hours of my life I'm not getting back.
                    It happened to me in France that the bank wouldn't open an account without an electricity bill, and the electricity company wouldn't give me electricity without a bank account.
                    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How much traffic there is in US borders every single day, airports etc? Consider the possibilites of fingerprinting people (those who don't have a deal with the US, which is majority) and facial recognition? Seems task almost impossible. SURE, it is possible.

                      What about people who do not have to give their fingerprints or get their picture taken? I never had to do that, since we have a deal. What about people, who get into this country, change their identity to a new one given by immigration department (destroy your old documents and say what your new name is, in reality that is how it works. I'm not kidding.), so that person isn't fingerpritned etc... so peopel can still use countries as proxies, or better yet, just get a fake passport. In some countries, it's easy to get a real passport with your fake identity too.

                      And you don't even have to be a true mastermind getting it, either bribe, buy it from black market or better yet, just fill out the form requesting passport, give your pictures and hopefully you look a bit like the person you are stealing their identity from, so they won't pay too much attention. That is, if you even look remotely the same, you'll just go and apply for a new passport for yourself, that's it. Just say that you lost your old one and verify that.

                      etc etc etc etc.. if you really want to get in, as in terrorists who have resources, they get in. This will only stop poor people and the innocent who are suspected because of a human error.
                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                        WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 — In a major blow to the Bush administration’s efforts to secure borders, domestic security officials have for now given up on plans to develop a facial or fingerprint recognition system to determine whether a vast majority of foreign visitors leave the country, officials say.


                        You would have been pissed had they gone through with it, too (were it possible).
                        I don't just reflexively hate everything the Bush administration does. Having actually sat on a consular line and issued visas, I can tell you that this was a good idea, and would have helped.
                        "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good idea?

                          Maybe you need to visit this new island...

                          Pen Island Pens - Home
                          In da butt.
                          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Pekka, you don't get it. Everyone is already being fingerprinted and photographed on their way in. Come to America and you're in a database, period. Doing the same on the way out would simply help track overstays, which are a big source of illegal immigration (and other things; at least one of the 9/11 hijackers was a visa overstay). To give up on this project, when the technology is already in place and the project itself is technologically feasible, seems shortsighted at best.
                            "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Oncle Boris


                              It happened to me in France that the bank wouldn't open an account without an electricity bill, and the electricity company wouldn't give me electricity without a bank account.
                              Oh oh. You'll get him started...
                              (\__/)
                              (='.'=)
                              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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