French Socialist: Iran shouldnt have a civilian nuclear program

[dannubis]

And in the other news:

They have built a completely new powerplant in St-Petersburg. However, Gazprom does not want to deliver the gas... Trust a Russian to do a thorough screwing up of a job.

Now, this is where it gets really interesting: big P. has a dacha nearby. Maybe he won't like the possibility of brownouts that much...

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: French Socialist: Iran shouldnt have a civilian nuclear program

Originally posted by Spiffor

That has been her position for a while.

During the Socialist primary, (where she had two competitors, who only got 20% each), she was the only one who didn't want Iran to have a civilian nuclear programme. The others just rejected military nukes for Iran.

I imagine Ségolène Royal is trying to woo votes both from the ecologist side and from the Jewish side.

Or, maybe, she actually believes the only real purpose of the Iranian nuclear program is to build weapons.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Yup.

Though her position predates this blunder.

Also, the right-wing tried to stir some hysteria about her merely meeting Hezbollah MPs. I guess that she disgusted quite a few Jewish voters doing that, and she wants them back.

It does seem odd that a French pol would visit Lebanon, and not meet a single Maronite MP. Odd from a historical perspective.

[LordShiva]

Nuclear energy

Who is this Diadem fellow anyway?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
She commited a blunder earlier this week, while visiting the Lebanese parliament. Apparently an Hezbollah deputy approached her and told her that Israel was like nazi Germany and she didn't react to the comment or expressed reserves.

" "[Had I heard the comments] I would not have overlooked them," she said."


Damned Hezbollah mumblers.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
It does seem odd that a French pol would visit Lebanon, and not meet a single Maronite MP. Odd from a historical perspective.

She met a variety of MPs. What I meant about "merely meeting Hezbollah MPs" is: the right tried to capitalize on the simple fact that, among the Lebanese MPs she met, there were Hezbollah ones.

To any person with a bit of knowledge of Lebanese politics, Hezbollah is much much more than a terrorist organization. However, there is a sizeable minority of French Jews who are very identitarian, and who hold extreme pro-Israeli views. These people consider it utterly despicable to see a potential president discussing with teh evil terrists.
The right wing wanted to get their votes (even though they're only a few dozen thousands, you just don't spit on any vote). And Ségolène want theirs too, while still looking capable to have an adequate foreign policy.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
" "[Had I heard the comments] I would not have overlooked them," she said."


Damned Hezbollah mumblers.

The Hezbollite was talking in Arabic, a language she doesn't speak. There were two Arabic-French translators: one for the press, and one for Ségolène. The press translator did translate the godwinizing bit (which is why it got reported). Ségolène's translator didn't.

Notice she reacted to the speech right after it was held, and opposed the Hezbollite's use of the word "entity" to define Israel (since Israel is obviously a State). If she opposed something as technical as the word "entity", you bet she'd have opposed very strongly the godwinizing bit, had it been translated. You can't fly high in French politics if you endorse rabid and godwinizing positions about Israel - whether to support or to oppose it.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

She met a variety of MPs. What I meant about "merely meeting Hezbollah MPs" is: the right tried to capitalize on the simple fact that, among the Lebanese MPs she met, there were Hezbollah ones.

To any person with a bit of knowledge of Lebanese politics, Hezbollah is much much more than a terrorist organization. However, there is a sizeable minority of French Jews who are very identitarian, and who hold extreme pro-Israeli views. These people consider it utterly despicable to see a potential president discussing with teh evil terrists.
The right wing wanted to get their votes (even though they're only a few dozen thousands, you just don't spit on any vote). And Ségolène want theirs too, while still looking capable to have an adequate foreign policy.

Spiff, I think that Hezbollah, while it is powerful politically in Lebanon, is deserving of a full diplomatic boycott as long as it continues to practice terrorism and to undermine the peace process (I wouldnt consider Ms (not sure if its Mme or Mlle) Royal despicable for that alone, without looking at the fuller context) Would you consider me identitarian and extreme?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

The Hezbollite was talking in Arabic, a language she doesn't speak. There were two Arabic-French translators: one for the press, and one for Ségolène. The press translator did translate the godwinizing bit (which is why it got reported). Ségolène's translator didn't.

Notice she reacted to the speech right after it was held, and opposed the Hezbollite's use of the word "entity" to define Israel (since Israel is obviously a State). If she opposed something as technical as the word "entity", you bet she'd have opposed very strongly the godwinizing bit, had it been translated. You can't fly high in French politics if you endorse rabid and godwinizing positions about Israel - whether to support or to oppose it.

Sorry if I was unclear - I didnt mean to mock Ms Royal with that, I believed her that she didnt hear them - just taking an opportunity to make light of the situation.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

She met a variety of MPs. What I meant about "merely meeting Hezbollah MPs" is: the right tried to capitalize on the simple fact that, among the Lebanese MPs she met, there were Hezbollah ones.

Then what you want to say is " the right attacked her merely for meeting with some Hezb MPs"

rathern "for merely meeting" which is ambiguous.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Spiff, I think that Hezbollah, while it is powerful politically in Lebanon, is deserving of a full diplomatic boycott as long as it continues to practice terrorism and to undermine the peace process (I wouldnt consider Ms (not sure if its Mme or Mlle) Royal despicable for that alone, without looking at the fuller context) Would you consider me identitarian and extreme?

I think it's as extreme as boycooting the Olmert govt, at least until its recent u-turn.

Let's look at the other side of the coin: The war in Lebanon was initiated by the Hezbollah, and was escalated to a ridiculous degree by the Olmert govt. And this govt killed more much innocent civilans than Hezbollah did during the war. Not to mention the crippled Lebanese economy.

As a result, many French Arabs (those who identify with the Arabs in the Middle-East at least) consider that the Israeli govt is horrible and evil. To them, it would be perfectly reasonable for a French president to boycott this evil regime.

Yet, that's an extremist position. It doesn't make for a pragmatic foreign policy. Just like boycotting the ZOMFG EVIL Hezbollah doesn't make for a pragmatic foreign policy. Snubbing an established, popular and extremely important political actor might feel good, but it rarely leads to any result.


Thannks for the correction about "merely meeting"

[Spiffor]

Ah yes, we call her "Mme Royal" though she's unmarried.

Her man is the chairman of the Socialist party. They've been together for something like 30 years and have 4 children.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I think it's as extreme as boycooting the Olmert govt, at least until its recent u-turn.

Let's look at the other side of the coin: The war in Lebanon was initiated by the Hezbollah, and was escalated to a ridiculous degree by the Olmert govt. And this govt killed more much innocent civilans than Hezbollah did during the war. Not to mention the crippled Lebanese economy.

I was not referring merely to Hezbs actions during the most recent war, but to their longstanding use of terrorism (including in Buenos Aires), their attacks on Israel since the Israeli withdrawl from South Lebanon, their actions as a proxy for Iran, etc. This summer they kidnapped Israeli soldiers and deliberately attacked Israeli civilians. Israel attempted to avoid killing civilians, but faced with an enemy that deliberately uses human shields, it failed. Hezb tried to kill as many civilians as it could, but faced with the weakness of its own rocket forces, under attack by the IDF, it failed.

Im not saying no one should talk to Hezb. The main subject for talks with Hezb is that it STOP doing all the things that have made it a pariah - and the most appropriate people for it to talk to are the Israelis. For a third party to talk with Hezb, in a context other than delivering an ultimatum, is something else.


In any case, its one thing to call a position wrong or even extreme. Maybe you think my position is extreme. Its another thing to charecterize those who hold it as extremists and "identitarians". Im not even sure what you mean by the latter. It sounds like you consider any Jew for whom their Jewish identity is a central part of their life, and who are strongly Zionist, as "identitarian".

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I
Yet, that's an extremist position. It doesn't make for a pragmatic foreign policy. Just like boycotting the ZOMFG EVIL Hezbollah doesn't make for a pragmatic foreign policy. Snubbing an established, popular and extremely important political actor might feel good, but it rarely leads to any result.

Okay, I look forward to a US pol meeting with M. Le Pen, then.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
It sounds like you consider any Jew for whom their Jewish identity is a central part of their life, and who are strongly Zionist, as "identitarian".

Yup.

Not all French Jews are obsessed with the Israeli issue, at least not any more than the French public at large (it is one of the most important international issues to the French opinion, but is way behind domestic issues, such as eg purchasing power).

However, all those Jews I met who consider their Jewishness a central part of their personality (not only in terms of religion, but in terms of "nation"), have Israel as one of their top issues (usually, the top issue is Arabic antisemitism).

I differenciate between the two, by using the word "identitarian". Being Jewish doen't necessarily mean you'll have a political agenda completely unrelated to the mainstream society. Being an identitarian Jew does mean that your political agenda focuses on your Jewish community (rather than, say, your French community).
It's not the same, and it would be a mistake to consider all Jews to be strongly focused on the Jewish community.