The 100 most influential British?

[FrostyBoy]

Shouldn't you be in the history forum?






j/k

[TheStinger]

Where's Eric Bristow?

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Don't be an ass.

JM

Don't be a slob.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Umm, I am asking for examples of the influence.. and you guys can't provide many. If I thought this was just a game of silly buggers, I would have never put the effort into this thread that I did.

It's like me saying "I think that Bujold is an amazing author, with a lot of insight, who everyone should read. Obviously she is hugely influential." And she is an amazing author... and maybe is even influential among sci fi people, but she isn't influential in the culture as a whole.

And from everything I have seen of Britian culture, neither is Douglas Adams.

JM

JM

You focus only on authors in the same style (which in the case of Adams is almost impossible to replicate), and on America (no other world exists for you) have completely ignored the point that I've made over and over again, that millions of ordinary people have been influenced by DA, and that many aspects of HHG are cemented into popular culture in Britain.

You are so blindingly stubborn that you refuse to listen, or acknowledge, or accept that there is a world outside your own little bubble.

With your narrow definition of influence, your contempt for ordinary people, and your pig-headed ignorance of my country, trying to have a rational debate with you is like trying nail jelly to the ceiling.

Welcome to my Agathon club.

[Cort Haus]

Oh No! I can't put the little **** on ignore. Bugger!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Sn00py
I added Captain Cook to the list (in first post). Found Australia, New Zealand and Polynesian islands (among others iirc).

I would say, in reality, Dampier is probably more important...

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


You focus only on authors in the same style (which in the case of Adams is almost impossible to replicate), and on America (no other world exists for you) have completely ignored the point that I've made over and over again, that millions of ordinary people have been influenced by DA, and that many aspects of HHG are cemented into popular culture in Britain.

You are so blindingly stubborn that you refuse to listen, or acknowledge, or accept that there is a world outside your own little bubble.

With your narrow definition of influence, your contempt for ordinary people, and your pig-headed ignorance of my country, trying to have a rational debate with you is like trying nail jelly to the ceiling.

Welcome to my Agathon club.

The spice girls are also hugely popular. Does that mean that they are highly influencial?

JM

[Krill]

Unfortunately yes You can't go to a club around here without hearing atleast one of their songs.

[Jon Miller]

See, I definitely see a difference between influential and popular. I wonder if that is a difference between American English and England English?

JM

[lord of the mark]

A writer who influences other writers both influences his own readers, and the readers of those writers who have been influenced by him, in later generations. A great enough writer will have influence through his own writings on succeeding generations - Im thinking of Milton, who, Ive been told, didnt really have any "school of influence" among other writers. But who has certainly influenced thought throughout the English speaking world.

Id say its just a bit too early to say what influence either Adams or Rawlings will have on succeeding generations.

[Jon Miller]

Well, I know that currently there are more writers who are copying Rawlings than Adams.

But yeah, if in 50 years Adams is something that a lot of writers read, I will be happily mistaken.

JM

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Well, I know that currently there are more writers who are copying Rawlings than Adams.

JM

arent most (all?) of them basically writers of cheap knock-offs - "heres something about magic your kid can read while waiting for the next HP book to come out"? I mean thats not influence, thats clones. Influence is when some writer is influenced by her whos GOOD.


Similarly if JRRT had only inspired sword and sorcery knockoffs, Id hardly call him influential on other writers. I think, though, his influence has been wider than that.

[Jon Miller]

My argument against Adams being one of the 100 most influential Britishers has numerous points.

Point A:
There are a lot of other artists, in both book and other forms, which are more widely experienced than him.

Point B:
There are a lot of authors, even science fiction and fantasy authors, who are more widely read than him.

Point C:
There are not many authors, or other artists, which are copying him. And few cite him as inspiration.

Point D:
He is not directly responsible for any object or idea that has changed how a large portion of people live today (or in the time between when his works were published and now).

Point E:
There are no obvious links between his works, or the ideas present in his works, and any object or idea created by someone else that has changed how a large portion of people live today (or in the time between when his works were published and now).

So compare him to scientists, statesmen, philosophers, or even other artists who changed the world (or how the world is viewed) for the majority of Britian, and even the world, and he comes up very very very lacking.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


arent most (all?) of them basically writers of cheap knock-offs - "heres something about magic your kid can read while waiting for the next HP book to come out"? I mean thats not influence, thats clones. Influence is when some writer is influenced by her whos GOOD.


Similarly if JRRT had only inspired sword and sorcery knockoffs, Id hardly call him influential on other writers. I think, though, his influence has been wider than that.

Generally if you are influencing people, there are people who attempt to emulate you. There are some Adam's emulators out there, they are mostly rare (Pratchet isn't just an Adam's emulator, even though I am happy to use him as an example of someone who Adams' influenced... if there were a lot more like him I would even call Adams influential).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Honestly, despite how much I love JRRT, and how important I think his work was (I think it is deep literature), and how it is really the foundation of modern fatasy. I probably wouldn't include him as one of the 100 most influential Brits.

JM