Legalise Heroin Now!

[Hauldren Collider]

A friend of mine from university had a massive mental collapse into schizophrenia, which the doctors thought was at least in part and possibly entirely caused by his use of pot. He seriously believed his parents had been possessed by Aliens and was committed. He never fully recovered and killed himself last year.

None of them are safe. But PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK.

It does for some drugs. It may not reduce its use to 0%, but making murder illegal doesn't eliminate all murders. That doesn't mean prohibiting murder doesn't work!

[Felch]

Murders have victims. Heroin has addicts. One is a crime, the other is a public health concern.

[MikeH]

The point is that illegal heroin and crack has loads of victims. People mugged, robbed, burgled to feed addicts habits. Whether it be family, friends, people on the street. The kids drawn into the illegal trade who are then imprisoned, killed.

[MikeH]

It does for some drugs. It may not reduce its use to 0%, but making murder illegal doesn't eliminate all murders. That doesn't mean prohibiting murder doesn't work!

Making murder illegal doesn't introduce the kind of social problems that prohibition does.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Making murder illegal doesn't introduce the kind of social problems that prohibition does.

for same reasons why alcohol was prohibition was abandoned, all other substance prohibition should be stopped as well... but too many interested parties do not want it to happen, combined with a solid (majority?) of ignorant citizens with "prohibit" position in the general population (if I close my eyes, it is not happening). Not only that it is not happening, it is fuelling all sorts of other illigal activities like weapons trade, murders, general crime, to some more bizzare ofshoots who need money like religious fundamentalists, even terrorism. "Drugs war" is probably the most ignorant position in the west which we actively support (as opposed to the typical other good stuff we could be doing, but don't). here we spend billions effectively fuelling drug lords/mafia/terrorists coffers.

[MikeH]

Alcohol prohibition in the US is such a perfect recent example of how significantly it doesn't work.

[MOBIUS]

Indeed, I think Elok and HC should give themselves a brief history lesson on how prohibition in 20s and 30s USA was effectively funnelling massive amounts of dollars directly into organised crime from the government and taxpayers! Also why they ended up giving up then, and the parallels between trying to prevent alcohol consumption and drug use.

The war on drugs today is doing exactly the same thing: Money from the US being funnelled to the violent cartels of Mexico and Colombia, or terrorists such as Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

The US government might as well be pulling the triggers on its own men in Afghanistan, such is the effect of 'The War of Drugs'...

[Al B. Sure!]

What's right is right no matter the cost

[Aeson]

Yes, we should learn from history. If we dropped a few nukes on the drugs the war would end pretty fast.

[MikeH]

What is the right or wrong in this case? If it's an absolute wrong for people to take recreational drugs, why do we allow so many to remain legal?

And why on earth should recreational drugs be illegal anyway? Are you saying it's morally wrong to allow people to do anything purely for pleasure which can harm them? If so we should also ban most sports, certainly all the extreme ones.

In many cases the illegality of these drugs is more harmful than their effect on the individual. That's ****ed up.

[MOBIUS]

What's right is right no matter the cost

That's such an empty headed response!

If it is right to ban heroin, then it must also be right to ban alcohol - except that the ban on alcohol was lifted because it was an abject failure (yay Roosevelt! ) for the same reasons that banning drugs is an abject failure.

When are people going to wake up and realise this!?

Also, is it right that US soldiers are dying in Afghanistan because of IEDs and other weapons purchased on the proceeds of drugs sold in the US? Is that right, no matter the cost...!?

You need a better argument than that, because your current argument is contributing to the deaths of US servicemen and women in Afghanistan, Al...

[MikeH]

What if the cost is 95% of the GDP of the US per year?

[Jon Miller]

Prohibition causes damage (unsafe consumption, violence, money going to wrong places, money lost to enforcement). Legalization causes damage (more people use it, money lost to treatment/etc). Obviously there is a boundary, that depend on how many new people will likely use a drug that was illegal and became legal, how damaging it is, and how much damage is being caused by prohibition.

I am not sure where the boundary is, but heroin should probably remain illegal and pot should probably become legal. This is based on the thought that not that many people take heroin now, but that a lot might if it were legal.

JM

[MOBIUS]

Prohibition causes damage (unsafe consumption, violence, money going to wrong places, money lost to enforcement). Legalization causes damage (more people use it, money lost to treatment/etc). Obviously there is a boundary, that depend on how many new people will likely use a drug that was illegal and became legal, how damaging it is, and how much damage is being caused by prohibition.

I am not sure where the boundary is, but heroin should probably remain illegal and pot should probably become legal. This is based on the thought that not that many people take heroin now, but that a lot might if it were legal.

JM

Legalisation doesn't necessarily mean that more people will use it.

The examples already cited in this thread show that this is not necessarily the case, e.g. Portugal on decriminalisation has seen a steady decline in drug use and its attendant effects on society.

Whereas during prohibition in the US, alcohol consumption soared when compared to when it was legal.

Also, the point about heroin is that because it is so cheap, those that would take it if it were legal are still able to take it when it is illegal. A fraction of the countless billions that are spent on enforcing useless anti drug laws could be spent on making sure people were fully aware of the dangers of heroin in the first place - after that you have a tiny minority of incredibly thick people that would take the drug no matter what...

[Jon Miller]

I just compare the percent of the population that uses opiates now versus the percent that used opiates back when they were legal.

JM