Yet another Lebanese politician assasinated

[lord of the mark]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_minister_shot

This time its Pierre Gemayel, a Maronite. And an anti-Syrian.

His uncle Bashir was assasinated after signing a peace treaty with Israel, leading to the massacres at Sabra and Shatilla of Palestinians, by Gemayel followers seeking revenge. (But lets NOT focus on that event)

Today the Gemayel party is weaker, but Pierre was apparently still prominent.

I wouldnt write a life insurance policy on any prominent anti-Syrian pol in Lebanon (apparently several journalists have been killed as well)

[Arrian]

Anti-Hezbollah/Syria. Shot down. Well, I'm shocked.

-Arrian

[Dinner]

Syria and Hezbollah have been busy offing everyone they don't like.

[Admiral]

You'll forgive me for not shedding a tear at the death of a leader of the Phelange party.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Admiral
You'll forgive me for not shedding a tear at the death of a leader of the Phelange party.

I knew someone would bring that up. Why, cause it was took a francoist sounding name way back in 1936? Cause it defended the old communalist Leb constitution for decades when Syria didnt recognize Lebanon, and Lebanon was under siege? Cause they actually signed a peace treaty with Israel, for which Bashir Gemayel was assasinated? Because in recent years theyve supported a multi-communal coalition struggling to assert Lebanese sovereignty?

[Admiral]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



I knew someone would bring that up. Why, cause it was took a francoist sounding name way back in 1936? Cause it defended the old communalist Leb constitution for decades when Syria didnt recognize Lebanon, and Lebanon was under siege? Cause they actually signed a peace treaty with Israel, for which Bashir Gemayel was assasinated? Because in recent years theyve supported a multi-communal coalition struggling to assert Lebanese sovereignty?

Because during the civil war, the Phelangist militia engaged in both provoked and unprovoked mass slaughtering of civilians. And of course they defended the constitution. The constitution was designed to give them Maronites (and them) disproportionate political power. And during the civil war, they were allied with Israel (and, at certain points, with Syria). While its true that I don't know what they've done since 1990, during the civil war they were a right wing extremist movement, and I don't tend to take kindly to such movements. Is 16 years long enough to forgive and forget? Maybe.

[MOBIUS]

Re: Yet another Lebanese politician assasinated

Originally posted by lord of the mark

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061121/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_minister_shot

(But lets NOT focus on that event)

No, let's not focus on that event mr Israeli apologist...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Admiral


Because during the civil war, the Phelangist militia engaged in both provoked and unprovoked mass slaughtering of civilians. And of course they defended the constitution. The constitution was designed to give them Maronites (and them) disproportionate political power. And during the civil war, they were allied with Israel (and, at certain points, with Syria). While its true that I don't know what they've done since 1990, during the civil war they were a right wing extremist movement, and I don't tend to take kindly to such movements. Is 16 years long enough to forgive and forget? Maybe.

Lots of folks were nasty in that civil war. It was a nasty civil war. If the PLO gets to reinvent itself after a bloody past why not the Phalange?

Constitution - yes the constitution was unfair, but they were in a situation where outsiders were trying to abolish the Leb state. Outsiders whose own politics were authoritarian, if not totalitarian. Is is fair to demand pure democracy in that situation?

During the civil war they made shifting alliances. Yes, thats the nature of Leb politics.

A right wing extremist movement? What does that mean? That they wanted to abolish health care insurance? That they wanted to murder Jews (it was more their enemies who were into that) In the Leb context, right wing was short hand for defending the Maronite position. I dont think thats intrinsicaslly hateful.

16 years? Well since this guy has only been a leader of Phalange, afaik, during that period, that would be the only relevant period. I mean we're expected to accept the moderation of Abbas, even though he was a leader of fatah DURING its period of high terrorism.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Yet another Lebanese politician assasinated

Originally posted by MOBIUS


No, let's not focus on that event mr Israeli apologist...

I just didnt want this to turn into another flamewar about Sharon. If thats what youd prefer, go start your own thread.

[MOBIUS]

Hey, only two more to go and the Lebanese government is effectively dissolved! [\SARCASM!]

So who has the most to gain from this, the obvious candidates Syria/Hezbollah: so obvious that would they really be this brazen!!?

Or Israel, finishing off what it started when it appeared to be deliberately attacking and destabilising Lebanon rather than actually going for Hezbollah...?

After all, they happily killed over a thousand civilians across the entire country including Christian Maronites - what's another stiff when you can finish off destabilising your (until recently, increasingly prosperous) neighbour AND make your enemies look bad.

[TheStinger]

Next you'll be saying it was actualy Israel who invaded Kuwait to make Irqa look bad

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by TheStinger
Next you'll be saying it was actualy Israel who invaded Kuwait to make Irqa look bad

You and I both know Israel couldn't hire enough Iraqi army fancy dress uniforms and had to ask the Iraqis to invade Kuwait for them...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Hey, only two more to go and the Lebanese government is effectively dissolved! [\SARCASM!]

So who has the most to gain from this, the obvious candidates Syria/Hezbollah: so obvious that would they really be this brazen!!?


LOTM - Yes. Sure. Whats anyone gonna do to them? The US is about to go begging to them for help "stabilizing" Iraq. The Israelis are gunshy over Lebanon. The Lebs they think they can intimidate. Brazenness is the point, if youre not brazen, you dont deter. See a certain ex-KGB man in London, for an understanding of the utlilty of brazenness.


" Or Israel, finishing off what it started when it appeared to be deliberately attacking and destabilising Lebanon rather than actually going for Hezbollah...?"

LOTM - BS. The attacks were on Hezb, or infra they thought Hezb was using.

"After all, they happily killed over a thousand civilians across the entire country including Christian Maronites - what's another stiff when you can finish off destabilising your (until recently, increasingly prosperous) neighbour AND make your enemies look bad. "


Happily????? You show yourself the vile troll you are.

[dannubis]

Certainly not happily.

But i don't think they cared much about what they were killing neither.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by dannubis
Certainly not happily.

But i don't think they cared much about what they were killing neither.

I think given the political costs alone, they were absolutely unhappy with the deaths of christian maronites.

anyway, its interesting to see how desperately some people are to change the subject to Israel, and away from what just happened in Lebanon.