Theodore Roosevelt, one cool dude

[lord of the mark]

Im currently reading a bio of young TR. Also no english language history forum is complete without a discussion of at least one US president.

Natural Historian. Snobby Harvard student. Amateur historian. Reforming NY legislator. Hunter. Cowboy. Western Sheriff. Civil Service Commisioner. Budding pol. Believer in the power of the White Race, who supported rights for blacks, and looked forward to the growth of non-white nations. A bundle of contradictions. A bundle of energy, and sheer will power.

[Dr Strangelove]

Did he really deserve the position of fourth president on Mount Rushmore? IMHO Madison, Monroe, Polk and Jackson made greater contributions to the development of the United States and more deserved a place on Mouint Rushmore.

[Lord Avalon]

I've been reading on and off The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris. Someday I'll get around to finishing it. Then I'll have Theodore Rex to look forward to.

From a sickly child he grew into quite the renaissance man. He did so many different things, it boggles the mind.

Bully!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lord Avalon
I've been reading on and off The Rise of Theodore Roosevelt by Edmund Morris. Someday I'll get around to finishing it. Then I'll have Theodore Rex to look forward to.

From a sickly child he grew into quite the renaissance man. He did so many different things, it boggles the mind.

Bully!

actually thats the book I was referring to in the OP. Finish it, it picks up as you go along.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Did he really deserve the position of fourth president on Mount Rushmore? IMHO Madison, Monroe, Polk and Jackson made greater contributions to the development of the United States and more deserved a place on Mouint Rushmore.

well the book i read is about his career before the presidency.

But Id say TR beats Monroe (important mainly for the doctrine, which was a reasonably obvious take on the situation at the time, and IIRC was actually written by JQ Adams, wasnt it?) And Polk was just a war hawk in the right place at the right time.

Now, Madison, I'll give you. Though Im thinking of his whole career more than of his presidency (but then TJ is really up there more for his whole career than his presidency) But I think they were looking for balance over time, and three founding fathers plus Lincoln wasnt what they wanted to say.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Did he really deserve the position of fourth president on Mount Rushmore? IMHO Madison, Monroe, Polk and Jackson made greater contributions to the development of the United States and more deserved a place on Mouint Rushmore.

Yeah, but Jackson was a Dick, so was Polk, Monroe was the crazy old guy who wore stuff 30 years out of date and Madisan would have taken Prozac if he were alive today.

Teddy.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Lonestar



Yeah, but Jackson was a Dick, so was Polk, Monroe was the crazy old guy who wore stuff 30 years out of date and Madisan would have taken Prozac if he were alive today.

Teddy.

yah, well, Im not sure what Teddy would have taken if he were alive today. He certainly gave a good impression of being crazy.

[Dr Strangelove]

Jackson persuaded the states to adopt universal (white) male sufferage, a very important step in the development of modern American democracy. Polk added Texas and the west to the United States. We all know about Madison being the primary author of the US constitution. IIRC he often consulted with Madison.

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Did he really deserve the position of fourth president on Mount Rushmore? IMHO Madison, Monroe, Polk and Jackson made greater contributions to the development of the United States and more deserved a place on Mouint Rushmore.

I heard the reasoning was because he founded the National Park System. And seeing as the monument was built in a national park made possible by his work....

[Wycoff]

Polk

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
But Id say TR beats Monroe (important mainly for the doctrine, which was a reasonably obvious take on the situation at the time, and IIRC was actually written by JQ Adams, wasnt it?) And Polk was just a war hawk in the right place at the right time.

Now, Madison, I'll give you. Though Im thinking of his whole career more than of his presidency (but then TJ is really up there more for his whole career than his presidency) But I think they were looking for balance over time, and three founding fathers plus Lincoln wasnt what they wanted to say.

Teddy easily beats Monroe. I like Monroe, but he didn't really do all that much IIRC. He was basically a caretaker President and a man caught between generations; he was too young to really contribute that much as a founder, and too old to be a part of the next wave of political issues (the Jackson, J.Q. Adams, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, John C. Calhoun generation). He was fortunate enough to govern during the era of good feelings (which speaks of the transition nature of the era in and of itself) and to be associated with what developed into a key Foreign policy doctrine. He rode the coattails of the Virginians that preceeded him in office: Jefferson and Madison. If it weren't for the Monroe doctrine, I'd bet that Monroe would be as anonymous a president as Millard Filmore or Benjamin Harrison.

Polk is, IMO, a truly underrated President. He increased the size of the U.S. by 1/3, adding some of the U.S.' most valuable territores and crippling a potentially dangerous continental rival in the process. Remember, the Mexicans had a larger army than the U.S. at the outbreak of "Mr. Polk's War." He managed to secure most of the Northwest while avoiding a potentially disasterous war with Great Britain (much to the dismay of the 54 40 or fight crowd). On the economic front, he established an independant treasury system and reduced tariffs. His competance and achievement are a mared contrast to the bunglers before and after him. He was easily the nest President between Jackson and Lincoln. In fact, I'd put him above Jackson. It's difficult to say whether Polk or T.R. has had more influence over U.S. history. T.R. was undoubtedly the bigger and richer personality of the two, but Polk may have had more substantive achievement.

Madison, the Father of the Constituiton, is a true giant of American history. I'd say that he's of a greater overall importance than even Jefferson (at least as far as the U.S. is concerned. Jefferson was more important on an international scale.)

[Immortal Wombat]

I've just picked up "The River of Doubt" (mostly because it was 25p), which is about his post-presidential expedition to Brazil. He was a seriously driven guy - how many other heads of state would lose an election, so go to map a completely unexplored river in the middle of the jungle, just to take their mind off things.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Did he really deserve the position of fourth president on Mount Rushmore? IMHO Madison, Monroe, Polk and Jackson made greater contributions to the development of the United States and more deserved a place on Mouint Rushmore.

Polk certainly. A forgotten American hero.

But Teddy broke the trusts, allowing for the unchaining of the American economy, and he built the Panama Canal, the greatest technologlical feat of its time.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Jackson persuaded the states to adopt universal (white) male sufferage, a very important step in the development of modern American democracy.

He also ejected the Five Tribes from the Southeast, while flouting the Supreme Court. Instigated illegal invasions of other countries while as a General. And oh, by the way, shot random people for the Hell of it Honor.

Polk added Texas and the west to the United States.

An even more blatant invasion of another country than the Iraq War.

Of course, Texas

We all know about Madison being the primary author of the US constitution.

While he was the primary author, the constitution could have been written in a similiar manner with or without him. He wasn't the only author of the Federalist papers, and George Mason could have done just as good a job.

IIRC he often consulted with Madison.

Uhm...



Wasn't he dead by then?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Lonestar
An even more blatant invasion of another country than the Iraq War.

I disagree. There was a legitimate border dispute. Soldiers from both sides came across each other in the disputed territories, and the Mexicans killed a bunch of our guys. True, we were looking for an excuse to go to war, but they gave it to us.