Bush: "Vietnam offeres lessons for Iraq, we will succeed unless we quit"

[Ninot]

Originally posted by DaShi
It was a bit more than that. At least under Nixon, the plan was to turn Vietnam into a US colony. There was even talk of giving much of it to the Japanese.

Iraq may be bad. But Vietnam is still the darkest part of US international history thus far.

Under Nixon, they wanted to make it a colony? I thought it was all about an honorable end to the conflict? That seems contrary to making it a colony.


Regardless, yeah, Vietnam is still worse. But Iraq will have a far worse aftertaste.

[DaShi]

That what it eventually became because we knew we couldn't win.

[PuddlewatchHQ]

Clearly this is insane thinking.

I can only conclude the POTUS has lost his mind. And I don't mean that as a jest. This is truly very troubling.

[Wycoff]

Shouldn't this outrage Vietnam veterans? What did they suffer, fight, and die for? We go and fight a pointless war, lose 58,000 people, only to have a President wohse silver spoon saved him from going to war go and attempt to make a trade treaty. For all we know, there could still be U.S. P.O.W.s. Doesn't this show the futility and pointlessness of these types of wars?

[Odin]

Re: Clearly this is insane thinking.

Originally posted by PuddlewatchHQ
I can only conclude the POTUS has lost his mind. And I don't mean that as a jest. This is truly very troubling.

I don't think Bush has ever HAD a mind.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DaShi
At least under Nixon, the plan was to turn Vietnam into a US colony. There was even talk of giving much of it to the Japanese.

Where in the world did you hear this claptrap??????

[Impaler[WrG]]

Notice the fundamental similarity between "Domino Theory" and Bush's "Fight them here or fight them at home" retoric.

Both are based on the premise that violent conflict with another ideology is unavoidable and that America can only control the location of the battle. Naturaly we dont want to have battle in our territory as thats highly destructive so theirfor we must invade some other place in self defence.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Isn't the actual lesson of Vietnam, "We'll succeed once we quit"?

[Elok]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Both are based on the premise that violent conflict with another ideology is unavoidable and that America can only control the location of the battle. Naturaly we dont want to have battle in our territory as thats highly destructive so theirfor we must invade some other place in self defence.

See, that would be hideously unethical but might actually work. If we'd toppled Saddam and then run away, the results would probably be much the same as they are now, with much fewer US casualties. The result would be a massive bloodbath attracting all the Allah u Admiral Ackbar nuts in the region who might otherwise be attacking us. Vile and inhumane, but possibly workable as a strategy. In the short term, that is; long-term, nobody knows WTF is going to happen.

What we have is even worse. Same lack of ethics, combined with delusions of grandeur that make us look ridiculous to the world. Plus we're killing lots of our own soldiers trying to pretend that what everyone thought would happen isn't happening.

[Proteus_MST]

But if you pulled out early wouldn´t the danger be there that Iraq might turn into a second Afghanistan?
With the fundamentalists taking control and allowing/supporting terrorist training camps on Iraq soil?

[Elok]

Yes, but first there'd be a good five-ten years where the various ethnic/religious groups spent their energy killing each other over who got the right to train in that particular hunk of desert. Plus it'd get the neighbors involved. Like I said: immoral as hell, but it might work in the short term.

[Zkribbler]

Isn't the lesson offered by Vietnam merely a reminder of Eisenhower's famous warning:

Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

[Ninot]

Eisenhower was wise beyond his years

but still, the US was involved in Vietnam all through the 50's, so it's hard to say he was innocent.

Iraq will be a mess no matter what now. Its just a matter of who's mess it is.

[Zkribbler]

the US was involved in Vietnam all through the 50's,

Only politically. It was JFK who first sent in military advisors and it was LBJ who committed major ground troops.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

The more I read reports and think about this, the more baffling it becomes. Following bush's logic, the plan for Iraq should be:

1) stay the course until the war becomes absolutely unviable, both militarily and domestically.
2) pull out
3) wait until a militant Islamic government is formed, then sever diplomatic relations
4) embargo the country for 20 years, out of spite
5) lift the embargo only to discover the burgeoning market is now dominated by your allies (who are also your economic rivals), and you get their table scraps

Well, I suppose it's a plan...