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Natural Rights: The right to discriminate vs the right not be discriminated against

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  • Natural Rights: The right to discriminate vs the right not be discriminated against

    I was thinking this in relation to the ability of property owners to discriminate on who it's clientel is in an overt way:

    In times of segregation property owners were able to prohibit blacks from entering their establishments and this was their right as property owners.

    Around comes the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and specificly Title II

    TITLE II--INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION
    SEC. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
    (b) Each of the following establishments which serves the public is a place of public accommodation within the meaning of this title if its operations affect commerce, or if discrimination or segregation by it is supported by State action:
    (1) any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence;
    (2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;
    (3) any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium or other place of exhibition or entertainment; and
    (4) any establishment (A)(i) which is physically located within the premises of any establishment otherwise covered by this subsection, or (ii) within the premises of which is physically located any such covered establishment, and (B) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such covered establishment.
    Now is the Civil Rights Act the biggest blow to personal property rights ever? The effect is you don't have the right to discriminate and all peoples have the right to patronize your public establishment.

    Will some people argue that while the intent is in the right place, the actual exsistence of a law prohibiting it is bad and infringes on a fundamental right?

    Will some people argue that we have fundamental rights to be treated equally and this is why this law was established?

    And what is the mostly correct answer?

    Imran, Berzerker, Drake, Diety Dude, Im calling you!
    "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
    'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

  • #2
    It probably is a blow to personal property rights, but was deemed as a necessary (even welcome) sacrifice in order to end Jim Crow. I am inclined to agree.
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    • #3
      you can still discriminate on the basis of being an asshat, so its all good.

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      • #4
        Yep. And ugly chicks still can't get into good clubs.
        KH FOR OWNER!
        ASHER FOR CEO!!
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        • #5
          Me neither.
          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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          • #6
            Sorry dude...
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
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            • #7
              So then is it one of those things that was appropriate for the time and shouldnt be used as a precedent for establishing laws restricting property rights?
              "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
              'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                Sorry dude...
                Of course, I define any club I can get into as a sucky club.
                Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MRT144
                  So then is it one of those things that was appropriate for the time and shouldnt be used as a precedent for establishing laws restricting property rights?
                  If you're a libertarian, yeah, basically. If you don't have your head stuck up your ideological ass, then you realize that property rights have always been restricted to some extent and that those restrictions have depended on all sorts of factors.
                  Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                  • #10
                    So then is it one of those things that was appropriate for the time and shouldnt be used as a precedent for establishing laws restricting property rights?


                    You probably shouldn't be using it as precedent unless you've got a reason for restricting property rights that is as good as destroying Jim Crow...
                    KH FOR OWNER!
                    ASHER FOR CEO!!
                    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                    • #11
                      So are laws that define where sexual offenders live constitute a need to restrict property rights as good or equal to Jim Crow?

                      By that measure, laws that regulate where the sale and consumption of alcohol, are those as good as Jim Crow?
                      "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                      'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                      • #12
                        Our government is not based on libertarian principles (thank goodness). We can restrict property rights for any damn reason we please, provided we follow due process of law and owners are fairly compensated.
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                        • #13
                          So are laws that define where sexual offenders live constitute a need to restrict property rights as good or equal to Jim Crow?

                          By that measure, laws that regulate where the sale and consumption of alcohol, are those as good as Jim Crow?


                          I don't think either of them are as good a reason as the ending of Jim Crow. Of course, I also don't think the restriction of property rights used to end Jim Crow was used as a precedent in either case.

                          Our government is not based on libertarian principles (thank goodness). We can restrict property rights for any damn reason we please, provided we follow due process of law and owners are fairly compensated.


                          Very true. This is why the government would never really have to use Jim Crow as a precedent.
                          KH FOR OWNER!
                          ASHER FOR CEO!!
                          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                          • #14
                            Especially considering that we regulated the sale and production of alcohol before Jim Crow even existed. Hell, it's written in to the Constitution.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                            • #15
                              To answer what I think is your most basic question, I don't believe in "natural rights". I don't think che does either. We only have what rights the government is willing to give us.
                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
                              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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