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  • Tax-cutting Dems?

    Democratic leaders this week vowed to make the alternative minimum tax a centerpiece of next year's budget debate, saying the levy threatens to unfairly increase tax bills for millions of middle-class families by the end of the decade.

    The complex and expensive tax was designed to prevent the super-rich from using deductions, credits and other shelters to avoid paying the Internal Revenue Service. But because of rising incomes, the tax is expected to expand to more than 30 million taxpayers in 2010 from 3.8 million mostly well-off households in 2006.

    Fixing the AMT has long been a top priority for Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.), who is in line to head the Senate Finance Committee. Last year, Baucus co-authored a bill to repeal the tax with Senate Finance Chairman Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa).

    Rep. Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.), the presumptive chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, this week put fixing the AMT at the top of his agenda, calling it far more urgent than dealing with President Bush's request to extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, which are scheduled to expire in 2010.

    And yesterday, House Democratic Whip Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), who is campaigning to keep his leadership post, said Democrats will make "fixing the AMT . . . a priority of tax policy next year."

    The focus on the AMT is hardly surprising, given that victims of the tax have been concentrated in high-cost urban areas such as Washington, New York and San Francisco -- places that tend to vote Democratic. Rangel, Hoyer and Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), the presumptive House speaker, all represent states hit hard by the AMT, which is sometimes called the "blue-state tax." To map states with the highest concentrations of AMT taxpayers is to draw bull's-eyes over California and the Northeastern seaboard...

    By 2010, "the AMT will become the de facto tax system for filers in the $200,000 to $500,000 income range, 94 percent of whom will face the tax," according to a report by the Tax Policy Center. About half of tax filers making $75,000 to $100,000 will have to pay the tax, including 89 percent of married couples in that income bracket who have at least two children.

    In the past, Congress has patched the AMT one year at a time, primarily by increasing the exemption amount. Next year, to hold the number of affected taxpayers steady at about 4 million, the patch would cost about $50 billion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

    Getting rid of the tax altogether would be even more expensive: more than $1 trillion over the next decade, by various estimates. Budget experts doubt that Democrats can do it without reneging on their promise to reduce the budget deficit or winning an agreement from Republicans to raise taxes elsewhere.




    to the Democrats if they go through with this. It's nice to see someone looking out for the little guy*...

    * "Little guy" in this case meaning households earning $100,000 to $500,000 a year, ie. much of the richest 5%...
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  • #2
    I don't get it. (And maybe I don't get the AMT, I'm certainly no tax lawyer.) Isn't the AMT simply a "You should have to pay at least this much in taxes, even with deductions"?

    Is it just not doing that job well? Who cares what dollar level it kicks in at?

    How about the AMT-369: 10% less than your tax bracket. (IE, a 15% tax bracket person pays min 5% tax; a 35% tax bracket person pays min 25% tax)

    That's simple, reasonable, etc...

    No deductions, period, to that tax. Specific monies can be exempted (money that doesn't really belong to you, for example) but on a specific and rare case by case basis. If it's real income, it's taxed.
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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    • #3
      Oh, and I'm confused. Why are the democrats assuming people hit by this tax are their voters? These are the folks making 200k+ a year ... yeah sure they're in urban centers, that's where rich people "live", but isn't the Democrat/left argument that most rich people are Republicans?
      <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
      I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by snoopy369
        I don't get it. (And maybe I don't get the AMT, I'm certainly no tax lawyer.) Isn't the AMT simply a "You should have to pay at least this much in taxes, even with deductions"?

        Is it just not doing that job well? Who cares what dollar level it kicks in at?

        How about the AMT-369: 10% less than your tax bracket. (IE, a 15% tax bracket person pays min 5% tax; a 35% tax bracket person pays min 25% tax)

        That's simple, reasonable, etc...

        No deductions, period, to that tax. Specific monies can be exempted (money that doesn't really belong to you, for example) but on a specific and rare case by case basis. If it's real income, it's taxed.
        The AMT originated in the 60's in order so the rich didn't qualify for many tax deductions, unfortunately they forgot to have it indexed to inflation, so now it's hurting the upper-middle class.

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        • #5
          Well, considering over here it's the Conservatives that want to ruin me financially
          "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
          -Joan Robinson

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          • #6
            I'm interested to see what middle-class folks like DanS and Ming think about this...
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
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            • #7
              Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
              Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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              • #8
                I fully support this initiative

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                • #9
                  Dems got to show that they are better than the republicans at spending future money.

                  JM
                  Jon Miller-
                  I AM.CANADIAN
                  GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                  • #10
                    The AMT doesn't kick in until you're making at least six figures. This affects less than ten percent of the population. It's a tax give away to the rich.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                      I'm interested to see what middle-class folks like DanS and Ming think about this...
                      As I understand it, the AMT removes most deductions for the upper middle class, which I think makes sense, so long as the applicable income tax rates are adjusted downward accordingly. Deductions distort our decisions about what we do with our money, which rubs me the wrong way.

                      FYI, the AMT is making our tax system take on some attributes of a flat tax.

                      Overall, this reform seems like a Dem shout out to its base of inner suburb/city dwelling voters.
                      Last edited by DanS; November 12, 2006, 13:52.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #12
                        The AMT doesn't kick in until you're making at least six figures. This affects less than ten percent of the population. It's a tax give away to the rich.


                        Yep.

                        As I understand it, the AMT removes most deductions for the upper middle class, which I think makes sense, so long as the applicable income tax rates are adjusted downward accordingly.


                        So basically we should drop the marginal income tax rates for the top two tax brackets and just tax them via the AMT? How far should we drop the marginal rates?
                        KH FOR OWNER!
                        ASHER FOR CEO!!
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                          I fully support this initiative
                          I doubt you will once you learn about the costs. Pelosi has repeatedly said the Democrats will go back to the "pay as you go" government of the 1990's. Under those rules no new spending or tax cuts can be authorized unless it is paid for by offsetting spending cuts or new taxes.

                          The pay as you go system prevented the Federal government from over spending to lavishly and was a major factor in Clinton's balanced budgets. So what do you think the Dems will do in order to pay for tax cuts for the upper middle class? If you believe what they say then they'll pay for it by eliminating Bush's massive give aways to the wealthiest of wealthy Americans.

                          Still, this will be a major step in the right direction since it will shift the burden of taxes off of the middle class and on to the upper classes who have enjoyed such massive and unfair tax advantages in recent years.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                            The AMT doesn't kick in until you're making at least six figures. This affects less than ten percent of the population. It's a tax give away to the rich.
                            The problem is that the AMT is not indexed to inflation. While it's 10% of the population now, it might be 50% in 10 years.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
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                            • #15
                              Still, this will be a major step in the right direction since it will shift the burden of taxes off of the middle class and on to the upper classes who have enjoyed such massive and unfair tax advantages in recent years.


                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
                              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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