Catholic nun gets 30 years for Rwanda genocide

[BlackCat]

Well, maybe I don't see much difference between such political motions and sociteies based upon religion.

Not being religious doesn't nessecarily mean that you are a nazi/commie/maniac pol pot supporter - quite contrary.

[Straybow]

Because Nazism, Communism, and other worship-the-leader cults are substitutes for religion.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Straybow
Because Nazism, Communism, and other worship-the-leader cults are substitutes for religion.

Ehrrr, no. Being an US democrat doesn't nessecarily mean that you are a supporter of a totalitarian state, and neither do being religious, but by being religious, there are a way higer probaility that you are willing to do insane actions.

[Flip McWho]

Ehrrr, no. Being an US democrat doesn't nessecarily mean that you are a supporter of a totalitarian state, and neither do being religious, but by being religious, there are a way higer probaility that you are willing to do insane actions.

Just as if you're a nazi it gives a higher probability that you'll hate jews and black people enough to do something insane.

Heck any ideology will do so when it makes a distinction between an us and a them, and makes the them less than human. Religion isn't any more dangerous than any other ideology, it's just been the most dominant throughout history.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Well, maybe I don't see much difference between such political motions and sociteies based upon religion.

Not being religious doesn't nessecarily mean that you are a nazi/commie/maniac pol pot supporter - quite contrary.

I agree that not being religious doesn't necessarily mean that You are a nazie/commie/pp supporter, but your "quite" contrary remark make no sense...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Well, maybe I don't see much difference between such political motions and sociteies based upon religion.

Not being religious doesn't nessecarily mean that you are a nazi/commie/maniac pol pot supporter - quite contrary.

I love that logic. Certain atheists ran repressive societies, so their societies are much like those based on religion.


I could just as easily say that nice athiestic liberal and social democracies are just like those based on religion, since the essence of religion is love and non-violence. Those religious groups that murder are basically atheist, since they ignore G-ds word, despite their professions of belief and active ritual lives.


How about just accept that this is human behavior and is orthogonal to religion?

[DRoseDARs]

By your logic, we should ignore the many parts of the Torah, Bible, and Koran that call upon their followers to kill kill kill or at least justify the unjustifiable.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
By your logic, we should ignore the many parts of the Torah, Bible, and Koran that call upon their followers to kill kill kill or at least justify the unjustifiable.

Well since the parts of the Torah that, literally interpretated, call upon people to kill are mainly directed towards groups like the Canaanites that havent existed for over 2000 years, Id say that ignoring them would be quite safe. Alternatively you could reinterprete them, since they are inconsistent with other parts. the US Constitution is a basic document of western democracy, but keeping slaves doesnt make a society "just like a western democracy" despite other dissimilarities.

[DRoseDARs]

I'll grant you your first point, but with the second the US Constitution has a very clear order of operations that eliminate contradictions: Amendments. Later amendments that are written to alter previous amendments or other parts of the USC automatically overrule the parts they address, hence no contradiction. Holy scriptures have no such mechanisms to deal with contradictions, ergo they are open to (mis)interpretation or more simply - and more commonplace - the cherrypicking of passages.

[Heresson]

Drose, please find a part of New Testament that calls for Christians to kill, kill, kill

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I'll grant you your first point, but with the second the US Constitution has a very clear order of operations that eliminate contradictions: Amendments. Later amendments that are written to alter previous amendments or other parts of the USC automatically overrule the parts they address, hence no contradiction. Holy scriptures have no such mechanisms to deal with contradictions, ergo they are open to (mis)interpretation or more simply - and more commonplace - the cherrypicking of passages.

actually there is such a mechanism, its called halacha, and whats more its justified in the text, if you follow the standard rabbinic interpretation of the text. I could go on, but i daresay youre not interested in a lecture on rabbinic Judaism. Of course its open to misinterpretation if read without the benefit of rabbinic commentary - which is one reason it used to be considered a violation of halacha to let the gentiles read Torah. some damned heretical group (whose name escapes me) in 1st century Judea defied that and went and taught torah, plus their own heretical doctrines, to the gentiles, and much that is regrettable has ensued from that.

[Whoha]

Kill the table eaters!

[Whoha]

the Quran has the concept of abrogation mentioned in it.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Heresson
Drose, please find a part of New Testament that calls for Christians to kill, kill, kill

Google found your answer "1,730,000 for new testament violence" in 0.28 seconds

Here's the first:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

Cruelty and Violence in the New Testament

I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men.--Rev.19:17-18

But you ask me what the scariest things are in Christianity: this infatuation with biblical prophecy and this notion that Jesus is going to come back as an avenging savior to kill all the bad people. -- Sam Harris, Beliefnet inverview

Matthew

1. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

2. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

3. Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

4. Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

5. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

6. "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

7. Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

8. Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

9. Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

10. Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

11. Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

12. Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

13. Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

14. Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

15. Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

16. Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

17. "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

18. In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13

19. Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

20. God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

21. The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

22. Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

23. Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark

24. Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

25. Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

26. Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

27. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

28. Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

29. Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke

30. God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

31. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

32. John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

33. Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

34. Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

35. Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

36. Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

37. According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

38. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

39. Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

40. Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

41. In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John

42. As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16

43. People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

44. The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

45. Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

46. Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

47. Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts

48. Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23

49. Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

50. Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13

51. Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6

52. The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23

53. David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22

54. The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34

55. Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans

56. Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

57. The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9

58. God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
1 Corinthians

59. If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17

60. Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8

61. If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9

62. If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
Ephesians

63. We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11

64. God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7

65. The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2

66. Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6
Colossians

67. God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14

68. God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
1 Thessalonians

69. God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10
2 Thessalonians

70. Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9

71. Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8

72. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
Hebrews

73. God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22

74. Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29

75. God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James

76. If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13

77. James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter

78. We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2

79. "The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20

80. God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter

81. God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6

82. God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7

83. When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John

84. Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
Jude

85. "The Lord destroyed them that believed not. 5
Revelation

86. Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5

87. Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7

88. Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18

89. Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16

90. "I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23

91. "Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11

92. God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2

93. God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4

94. God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8

95. The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11

96. God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3

97. 144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4

98. Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14

99. God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13

100. "Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11

101. The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6

102. God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10

103. Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19

104. Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5

105. God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6

106. After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7

107. Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12

108. When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14

109. "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8

110. Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11

111. "The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20

112. Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7

113. The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21

114. God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6

115. "They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17

116. To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8

117. God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9

118. Jesus makes war. 19:11

119. With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15

120. "Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

121. The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

122. God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

123. Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

124. All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

[Whoha]

thats awesome, but where is the part that tells his followers to kill?