Can the pope still excommunicate people?

[BeBMan]

....and if so, under what circumstances would he?

That's actually a serious question, which came to me when I read about RC nuns involved in the Rwanda genocide, like here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6136192.stm

I don't want to discuss the genocide generally or these cases specifically, I'm just wondering about the excommunication thing. As RC can you still get excommunicated for doing lots of evil stuff these days, or is this absolutely passé today? Or is it only possible when you do something against the religion/church itself (so not for "secular" crimes)

[Adalbertus]

I don't know the exact regulations for excommunications, but it still exists. There even exist some automatisms, like when Lefèbrve consecrated bishops without explicit permission by the pope, he "excommunicated himself". I think there are also some issues with re-married divorced people or participating at a protestant Lord's Supper. But in these cases, to put it carefully, the pope doesn't really (want to) know what's going on in his church.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, he can.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yep.


Automatic Excomunications

Automatic excommunication
There are a few offenses for which Latin Rite Roman Catholics are automatically excommunicated (the Latin term is Latæ Sententiæ):

Apostasy (canon 1364),
Heresy (canon 1364),
Schism (canon 1364),
Desecration of the Eucharist (canon 1367),
Physical force against the Pope (canon 1370),
Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in adultery (canon 1378),
Ordination of a bishop without a Papal mandate (canon 1382),
Direct violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a priest or bishop (canon 1388),
Procurement of a completed abortion or having an abortion done on oneself (canon 1398), or
Accomplice in any of the above (canon 1329).
These excommunications are not incurred when certain mitigating circumstances apply (canons 1323 and 1324), e.g., depending on age, ignorance, culpability. In short, a person must be old enough, knowledgeable enough, and free enough in their action to incur the full weight of such a penalty.

Unless the local ordinary or an ecclesiastical court finds that the offense in question occurred, the obligation to observe an automatic excommunication lies solely on the excommunicated (Can. 1331 §1). Thus, even though an automatic excommunicant is forbidden to exercise any ecclesiastical offices, the excommunicant still retains the offices and all such acts are still valid acts under the law unless there has been a trial and finding of fact. Once this occurs, all subsequent acts become void and all offices lost (Can. 1331 §2).

The removal of the excommunication incurred by offenses 4 through 8 is reserved to the Holy See, either personally by the Pope or through the Apostolic Penitentiary. Those who have incurred such a penalty normally go to a priest to confess, and the priest communicates anonymously and confidentially with the Penitentiary to receive delegation to lift the excommunication.

Additionally, various parts of the Catholic Church can impose other grounds for excommunication. For example, from 1884 to 1977 in the United States, an automatic excommunication applied to divorced Catholics who remarried outside the Church without obtaining an annulment. As another example, since 1996 in the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska, an automatic interdict (and, under certain conditions, automatic excommunication) applies to members of certain organizations, including Call to Action, the Society of St. Pius X, and DeMolay International.[3] As with latae sententiae penalties specified in church-wide law, penalties imposed by the local ordinary are invalidated by certain mitigating circumstances. For example, no one under the age of 16 can receive a penalty under canon law, including excommunication, so most members of DeMolay would be exempt from this sanction.

Some ecclesiastical offenses incur an automatic interdict, which for a lay person is virtually equivalent to excommunication. See that article for details.

Automatic Interdictions

The word interdict usually refers to an ecclesiastical penalty in the Roman Catholic Church. The most common usage is a penalty which suspends all public worship and withdraws the church's sacraments in a territory or country. An interdict issued against a country was to it the equivalent of issuance of excommunication against an individual. An interdict would cause all the churches to be closed, and almost all the sacraments not to be allowed (i.e. preventing marriage, confession, Anointing of the Sick, and the eucharist). Certain exceptions allow for baptism, Anointing of the Sick, and sacraments on Holy Days.

Interdiction was used by the Pope during the Middle Ages as a way to influence rulers. For example, Pope Innocent III placed the kingdom of England under an interdict for seven years between 1208 and 1215 after King John refused to accept the pope's appointee as Archbishop of Canterbury.

An interdict can also be a penalty against a specific individual. It is like excommunication in that the person is barred from receiving the sacraments and participating in public worship, but it does not bar the person from continuing to hold and exercise ecclesiastical office. Thus, for a lay member of the church, it is basically equivalent to excommunication.

Certain offenses incur an automatic (latae sententiae) interdict:

Physical violence against a bishop (canon 1370 §2)
Attempting to preside over or concelebrate in Mass while being a deacon or lay person (canon 1378 §2 1°)
Hearing and/or attempting to absolve confessions while being a deacon or lay person (canon 1378 §2 2°)
Falsely accusing a priest of soliciting adultery while in confession (canon 1390 §1)
Attempting to marry while having a perpetual vow of chastity (canon 1394 §2)
Other offenses may incur an interdict:

Public incitement against the Apostolic See or the local ordinary (canon 1373)
Promoting or directing a prohibited association (canon 1374)
The crime of simony (canon 1380)
In Maltese history, Bishop Michael Gonzi, interdicted those who favoured the opinions of the Malta Labour Party. Their burial had to be done in unconsecrated land. This was due to the controversional proposal of integrating Malta with the United Kingdom and fear that the Malta Labour Party was becoming a Communist Party.

Wiki

[BeBMan]

Ahh, thx

[Hot Mustard]

Re: Can the pope still excommunicate people?

Originally posted by BeBro
Can the pope still excommunicate people?

Sure, but I think the question is - so what?

Amongst all people deserving excommunication, except those within the church, none would give a crap if they were excommunicated. A good deal of society also wouldn't care. It would in fact possibly become a badge of respect amongst dictators.

That is the real reason it isn't done anymore - it would further prove how meaningless the Church is today.

[BeBMan]

Hm, I guess for a nun (esp. one in Africa) it could be a bit more serious than for other religious folks. For all others it's irrelevant or even pointless/impossible to do anyway, yes.

[Whoha]

I wouldn't think apostates would care about excommunication.

[joncha]

/me excommunicates BeBro

[BeBMan]

*Bebro doesn't care about Joncha, unless he posts one of those horrible Lorne Greene pics*

[joncha]

That can be arranged.

[BeBMan]

[Dinner]

Physical force against the Pope (canon 1370),

I always thought that one was a joke. In the late middle ages it was popular to lop the head off of the old Pope and have his successor declare you a Papal Indulgence. If the new one doesn't comply then you keep repeating the process until one of them agrees to give you what you want.

[Dr Strangelove]

How exactly does one desecrate the Eucharist?

[Barnabas]

For example by drawing a happy smile like this one on it



it happened last year in an american (USA) catholic school, the kid found itdelf authomatically excommunicated, had to do whatever is needed for joining the church again.

In black masses (satanists, anti chrisdtian pagans etc) desecrate the eucharist too

That is why they used to put the eucharist right into your mouth and not give it to your hands, because in your hands you could then put it in your pockets and do nasty things to it