Please cirtique my writing

[Arrian]

I don't take that simple step, because it is patently ridiculous, foolish in the extreme, and displays a complete lack of understanding of the situation as it is and as it was. How can you blame people living today for crimes committed hundreds of years ago?

People do it all the time. I agree that it's ridiculous, but people are often ridiculous. I'm simply arguing that you might want to be careful of triggering such a ridiculous reaction... because ridiculous as it might be, it's NOT uncommon.

I understand you want to lay out the background in order to make your argument about the present. That's fine. It's a matter of tone, and perhaps of specifically explaning what you've explained here when I raised the issue.

edit: you don't need to whitewash history. You need to make clear that the way forward isn't about harping on the past - seeking revenge and whatnot. People really do get hung up on that stuff.

-Arrian

[Odin]

Originally posted by aneeshm

The problem is, most people are today in denial. Most of the friends to whom I distributed this essay did not know of the universities which were destroyed. They had no idea of what we have lost. Not one of them knew that if the Muslim invasions hadn't happened, we'd have an unbroken university tradition stretching back into the BC years, with libraries to match - the largest repository of culture in the world. They had no idea of the atrocities which happened at that time. And there is a policy of the deliberate suppression of that period of history, of denying that anything bad ever happened. Our history textbooks, when they say that the Muslim empires of the time invaded India, talk as if they arrived in a tourist bus, then took some photos, created some nice architecture, and then gradually faded away. There is not a single mention of the negative consequences of the invasion, there is not a single word about anything negative they did at all! Even Aurangzeb, one of India's worst iconoclasts, is said to have destroyed temples for "purely economic reasons, not because of any religious motive". It is tripe like this that disillusions people and makes them hate all the more when they learn the truth. I try to make it clear that yes, this happened, that yes, it is shocking, that yes, it is horrible that there are people still trying to sweep it under the rug, but that even after all this, hatred is not the answer, there is another way out.

That is one screwed up history curriculum. The world history classes I've taken never went in depth on India, but I do rember reading that Aurangzeb was an intolerant bastard, especially compared to Akbar, who was so religiously tolerant that he tried to create his own syncretic religion.

[aneeshm]

Will someone please answer me? I ask again - how do I state unpleasant truths in a pleasant way?

[Arrian]

Why did the life-force leave the institutions created with great care by our ancestors? The answer is not easy to find in today's intellectual climate, though it is obvious from a simple and unbiased perusal of Indian history. For the last thousand years, India has been under the rule of imperialists bent on wiping out India itself. When I say 'wiping out India', I refer to the attempt made by the Islamic invaders and the British to completely destroy the culture and prosperity of India, respectively.

You have claimed in this thread that you don't intend to blame outsiders for India's problems, but you clearly do just that in your essay/speech.

question:

Why did the life-force leave the institutions created with great care by our ancestors?

answer:

For the last thousand years, India has been under the rule of imperialists bent on wiping out India itself.

More:

Now imagine such cruelty happening continuously, imposed on a land for over a millennium, imagine iconoclasts as bad as the Taliban ruling over our beloved mother India for over one thousand years. And imagine how much cultural destruction they must have wreaked on her.

First off, exaggerate much? Taleban-esq rule for 1000 years? Please. And again with the destruction wrought by the eeeeevil outsiders. Everything was going great until the bad men showed up.

After the Islamic invaders came the British, with their plundering of our natural resources and the wealth we had build up over many thousand years. All the wealth of the temples, of the kings and the state, of the people, of everyone, in fact, was taken away bit by bit in a span of a hundred and fifty years.

More eeeevil furriners. Again, no mention of any Indian problems that may have led to this situation, and of course the harshest possible rhetoric to describe the actions of the Brits and Muslims.

You can lay this out in a much less inflammatory way (and be more concise as well) and still get the basic point across, as so (this is a quick sketch of how to do it):

India was developing toward its own modernity when its development was interrupted by invasions and occupations by other cultures. Those other cultures destroyed native (Hindu, right?) institutions and traditions in favor of their own. A clear example is the fact that this essay is written in English.

Then propose the way forward. Yay.

-Arrian

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm
Will someone please answer me? I ask again - how do I state unpleasant truths in a pleasant way?

First, by stating truths.

[Arrian]

That would help. Anybody more familiar with Indian history than I am care to take that on?

-Arrian

[KrazyHorse]

aneeshm, you're one of the biggest chauvinists I've ever had the misfortune to interact with.

I'm certainly not going to help you make a speech like that any prettier.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by DaShi


First, by stating truths.

Very well. I explicitly wanted to avoid this, because this is far more inflammatory than anything I wanted to include in my speech, but since you want it, here goes:

Hindu Temples: What Happened to them: Read Chapter 10 for the straight dope, with references.

Hindu Temples: What happened to them: The Islamic Evidence: Muslim records of conquerors going into raptures about destroying temples. Read chapter Six and Seven - full references given.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
aneeshm, you're one of the biggest chauvinists I've ever had the misfortune to interact with.

I'm certainly not going to help you make a speech like that any prettier.

Fine, that's up to you. But remember that my criticism is directed at people long dead.

[Dinner]

So did anyone ever determine the origins of Hindu civilization?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Oerdin
So did anyone ever determine the origins of Hindu civilization?

Ironically, it has something to do with Aryan invaders destroying and replacing the pre-Hindu Dravidian civilisation

[Barnabas]

Anneshm, why dont you try to look at it from the perspective of the invader (not the aryans, I mean muslims, portuguese, british etc)

Why do you think they thought what they thought about indians, why couldnt indians defend themselves? (after all they were a lot more)

[DaShi]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Fine, that's up to you. But remember that my criticism is directed at people long dead.

[DaShi]

Oh, and could you have found a less biased source?

[Arrian]

/me looks at the sources...

Ugh.

KH is right. I shouldn't even bother.

-Arrian