Damn anti smoking fanatics! Bars can't serve food and allow smoking? WTF!

[MRT144]

how many would be in favor of granting smoking licenses to business that want to allow it. make it so it becomes uneconomical to operate as such.

[Asher]

As a side rant...someone else near my apartment smokes.

I like to leave my windows open when it's warm outside for the fresh air. About 3-4 times a night, the overwhelming stench of cigarette smoke drifts into my apartment from that ****er who smokes on his balcony. Seriously, you have no idea how much that bothers me.

Then to have a smoker on here talking about how they have to "bend over backwards" for nonsmokers, get off it. Jesus.

[MRT144]

its funny how someones arguement can be used against them simply by removing a few words. their whole arguement rests on point of view not reasoning.

is smoking a fundamental right?
is causing bodily harm to others a right?
do property rights supercede the public health?
are smokers able to exercise that ability more than non smokers are able to avoid it?
does the majority get to make laws?

why are there age laws on smoking? technically i am not directly harming a minor by providing booze or smokes to him because he still has the choice of what to do with them?

why do we have liquor control boards if bar owners have the right to do what they want on their property? there is no reason to regulate something like that, is there?

how can we tell child molesters where to live and where not to unless their mere presence is a threat to public safety?

shall i go on?

again i think only people who smoke or are against the idea of any government intervention whatsoever, or until it benefits them, are against smoking bans.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Who does have a dream job? Almost nobody. I've never known such a thing personally.

That's the point. The vast majority of people work jobs they would not choose, because their choices of where to work are limited. You refute your implication that a person can work wherever they would like, under the conditions that they choose.

Seeing as most people don't smoke, perhaps only 10% of bars need to have smoking available. So 90% of bar employers can be smoke free. A person is no more forced to work in a smoking bar than they are forced to work at the side of a motorway.

The free market had not created this type of dynamic on it's own. (It rarely does care about the health of the working class.)

Bars can become dangerous places with drunken customers. Loud music can cause ear damage. Should we ban alcohol and live music too for the safety of staff?

In the case of drinking you are confusing choices with potential side effects.

A person can drink and not directly impact the health of those around them. The choice to drink does not directly equate to a choice to impact the health of others.

A person cannot smoke in a confined place (and even outdoors to a much lesser extent) and not directly impact the health of those around them. A choice to smoke does directly equate to a choice to impact the health of others.

I personally do not drink because I think it is irresponsible. I think it would be great if enough people felt the same way so that alcohol consumption could be eliminated from our society completely. But I am also realistic, and know it is not going to happen any time soon.

Loud music is much the same as alcohol in that regard. Ideally it would be great if the hearing of those working there were taken into account as well. I just have no delusions as to it happening.

The implication you have made that an easily eliminated health risk shouldn't be addressed because other health risks exist and cannot be easily eliminated is flawed. That logic leads to the conclusion that no health/safety concerns should ever be addressed.

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Asher
As a side rant...someone else near my apartment smokes.

I like to leave my windows open when it's warm outside for the fresh air. About 3-4 times a night, the overwhelming stench of cigarette smoke drifts into my apartment from that ****er who smokes on his balcony. Seriously, you have no idea how much that bothers me.

Then to have a smoker on here talking about how they have to "bend over backwards" for nonsmokers, get off it. Jesus.

I feel you. I live in 3rd floor and now the 3 bars downstairs have decided to make their customers smoke outside. The overwhelming stench makes me want to piss on them from my window, maybe I'll do that someday.
Now I'm desperately trying to get our student club bar(one of the 3) to allow smoking inside again. Not only because having them smoke under my window bothers me but because I want myself to be able to smoke inside if I ****ing choose to do so. Its supposed to be for student rec activities FFS.

I'm a non-smoker myself. My message to my fellow non-smokers wanting to ban smoking in bars is: If you want to live forever you might as well get out of the bar right now anyway. God its like the veggies enforcing ban on meat in the student restaurant or something. You got to draw the line in somewhere.

No problem with cigar or pipe smoke though. Those smell kinda nice actually.

[MRT144]

i think you have to approach laws like this on a case by case basis. there are laws that are arbitrary. there are laws that serve a greater purpose. there are laws that limit our rights to choose behavior. and because there are many laws that have many of these factors we cant form general rules about them simply to appear consistent

[MRT144]

Originally posted by laurentius
I'm a non-smoker myself. My message to my fellow non-smokers wanting to ban smoking in bars is: If you want to live forever you might as well get out of the bar right now anyway. God its like the veggies enforcing ban on meat in the student restaurant or something. You got to draw the line in somewhere.

we dont want to live forever, we'd like the right to choose our death from liver failure, not lung cancer

[Ming]

Originally posted by Asher
Stop being so damn selfish, recognize that people around you don't need to kill themselves for your habit, take it outside, and suck it up. Your whining ends here.

Do you drive a car? If you do, every time you drive it, you are poluting the air and helping to kill not only people, but the planet as well... so if you do, stop being so damn selfish

[laurentius]

Originally posted by MRT144


we dont want to live forever, we'd like the right to choose our death from liver failure, not lung cancer

yeah, yeah me too. Seriously though you cant really choose which cancer you die from nowadays, can you?

For me the problem is both forcing them smokers to smoke under my window and the general rule of smoking in club and bars. The next logical step from bars without cigarettes is bars without alchohol. What are we going to do then, drink milk and eat protein bars?

I say this to governments: We are adults. So **** off and let us be decadent when we chose to do so.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Asher if the estrablishment allows smoking why would i leave??? your the one, the non smoker with ur panties in a wad you leave!!! I have the same rights you have and i choose to do as i please with them as you do.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Ming
Do you drive a car? If you do, every time you drive it, you are poluting the air and helping to kill not only people, but the planet as well... so if you do, stop being so damn selfish

You're not allowed to drive cars in bars whether or not they serve food, usually.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
You're not allowed to drive cars in bars whether or not they serve food, usually.

True enough

But driving a car is helping to kill EVERYBODY on the planet. There is no excaping it. So Asher, stop being so selfish and stop driving your car. Because of you, people are dying!

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by laurentius


yeah, yeah me too. Seriously though you cant really choose which cancer you die from nowadays, can you?

For me the problem is both forcing them smokers to smoke under my window and the general rule of smoking in club and bars. The next logical step from bars without cigarettes is bars without alchohol. What are we going to do then, drink milk and eat protein bars?

I say this to governments: We are adults. So **** off and let us be decadent when we chose to do so.

To funny and actually have adults decid3e what they want to deal with no freaking way!!! asher and his cronies aint gonna be happy till we wont be able to drink in public cause its harmful to others!! Whats the point of a bar i ask ya ?? hell man i stay home and drink, and mrt i havent been drunk in over a year!!!! But hey thats all ok cause those smokers are labeled selfish cause a whiner wants to cry, well alot of us smokers care and we dont light up around non smokers cause its easier to get away from the whining then it is to listen to them cry like a 2 yo

[MRT144]

the property rights arguement is getting more and more weak the more i think about it.

for example home owners are not allowed to discriminate on who lives ion their property for many races, religions, etc. they are also prevented from renting to child molesters in many communities because of the locale of their property. now these are two cases where the owners rights are violated for exclusionary, and then inclusionary reasons. and also blacks, gays, pedos, are less of a direct public health threat than smoking.

now if you believe in consistent application of law or reasons for laws what do you follow? notice that i stated a belief in case by case analysis of laws pertaining to rights. i think there might be general rules we try to follow but the public can change them and does.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ming
Do you drive a car? If you do, every time you drive it, you are poluting the air and helping to kill not only people, but the planet as well... so if you do, stop being so damn selfish

I take the subway to/from work each day.

And you know it's not the CO2 that kills people.

And for the record, I think it should be illegal for cars to be driven in restaurants and bars as well. The fumes are also harmful to humans, and should only be done outside...