I have to confess. I hate Diebald voting machines.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by LordShiva
But what about large constituencies with millions of residents?

Hell, the whole of Finland only just manages to have "millions of residents"

[chequita guevara]

I have to say, compared to the scantron machines I used in Duval County (I lived in a white district so we had new, working machines), the Diebold machines we used here in Broward County sucked ass. Couldn't view the whole thing at one time, harder to review your ballot, and it's just a friggan black box.

I did have a voting irregularity. I went to the County Supervisor Board of Elections website the night before the election to see where I would be voting. I live in the 62nd precinct, so I should be voting at the Pipefitters Union Hall. I get there, and I'm not in the books, so I get bounced around to all the different precincts before they call downtown and discover that for some reason, I'm registered to vote in the 43rd.

So I call Bunnygrrl and go pick her up, because the 43rd Precinct voting site is a bit further. So I get to vote, but Bunnygrrl's registration is no where to be found. To complicate matters, her drivers license still shows our old Jacksonville address and she has a hyphenated last name. So after about a half an hour, we discover that she's registered to vote . . . back in the 62nd precinct!?!

So apparently, on one side of the bed, it's the 43rd precinct and on the other, its the 62nd. But how do they know where we sleep, plus we moved the bed recently.

Then when we get there, she isn't even in the list, and they had to call downtown again to get her information. It took us an hour and a half to vote.

[Pekka]

PH, right, but people are registered anyway, so you have them on databases, so what is the problem with using pen and paper to vote? People used to do that before, with similar population numbers...

What is the problem? There is no problem. People have convinced themselves they can't live without computers or something.

Paper and pen is still the best way to vote, for security reasons.

This should be the concern of all, not one party who lost, not an angry voter who thought his vote got screwed over. This sohuld be the concern of all, especially the winner who gains control.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Solver
By the way, for someone who has never seen an electronic voting machine, can you briefly describe how these work? I gather that they don't have a touchscreen with a list of candidates, so how do the things work?

The one I voted on was a touch screen with candidates name

[SpencerH]

Hmmm, perhaps I am recalling incorrectly, but wasnt it whining Dems who wanted automated machines after the debacle in Florida and now they're whining about how unsafe they are. Typical.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


The one I voted on was a touch screen with candidates name

You mean one didnt have a picture of the candidate or a handy-dandy graphic icon of the issue in case the voter was a brain-damaged illiterate from the foothills of the appalachians? I'm shocked at the level of voter disenfranchisement that occurs in central Atlanta. Just who controls the voting apparatus there anyway?

[siron]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - NOVEMBER 10, 2006
Contact: Paul Lehto, Esq., 425.422.1387

CA 50 EXIT POLL ESTIMATES 6-POINT DISTORTION ENABLED BY REGISTRAR’S ABUSE OF DISCRETION

Haas’ Decision To Delay Paper Ballot Count
Artificially Inflates Votes For Republican

November 10, 2006 San Diego, CA

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3772

WTF? They havent counted all the ballots yet?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Hmmm, perhaps I am recalling incorrectly, but wasnt it whining Dems who wanted automated machines after the debacle in Florida and now they're whining about how unsafe they are. Now I will join the Socialist Party and give all my money to che.

If you replace a bad system with a worse one, expect complaints. What pro-democracy advocates wanted was a system that guarantees that everyone's vote counted. Now we have a system that can't guarantee anyone's vote was counted, due to the lack of any physical records. I'm sorry, it's too damn easy to manipulate electronic data after the fact.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The one I voted on was a touch screen with candidates name

That sounds like the same type of machine I voted on a few years ago in L.A. It was very easy.

--But then I got to thinking...my vote would only be counted if (a) the machine counted it correctly; (b) my vote was electrically trasmitted correctly to whereever it is that votes are counted; and (c) the vote=counting machine added the votes correctly. That's too many places for electronic tampering or blundering to occur.

--Then I learned that the guy who owns the company that makes the machines is a huge Republican financial supporter.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Hmmm, perhaps I am recalling incorrectly, but wasnt it whining Dems who wanted automated machines after the debacle in Florida and now they're whining about how unsafe they are. Typical.

I for one wanted automated machines like the Scantron forms California was using for years. It had a paper record which could be varified if a recount was needed while most Diebold machines do not have any paper record at all. In response to laws passed by states like California a paper printer attachment has been added to some Diebold models, however, the voter never actually sees what is printed and instead it goes into a container sight unseen.

That's just not good. I reject your assertion that this is the only way to automate the voting process and I know we can do better. The scantron form is the single best method availible since the form gets scanned and counted before the voter leaves so s/he knows if there is an error before they leave and have a chance to correct it. Plus an actual paper record is made so that recounts can easily be done plus the system is more secure and less open to hacking.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Zkribbler

--Then I learned that the guy who owns the company that makes the machines is a huge Republican financial supporter.

That was the main reason why Congress virtually mandated the use of Diebold machines over other competing automated voting methods. The guy gave enough money to enough Congressmen that he was virtually allowed to write what qualified as a new electronic voting machine and what didn't. Not surprisingly the law was written so that Diebold's existing line up of machines was virtually the only ones which qualified.

Now other companies have designed machines for this market, however, cities typically only buy new voting machines every 20-30 years so it looks like Diebold will be the installed base of voting machines for the next several decades. The cities had to decide which machines to buy 2-4 years ago when Diebold was the only machine which complied with the Congressional mandate.

It's an obvious case of political corruption but that's the way things work in America.

[chequita guevara]

The error rates for the Scantron are are the lowest of all the available types. However, it's not accessible for some types of disabled folks, and there needs to be an alternative method for them.

[Dinner]

True.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


If you replace a bad system with a worse one, expect complaints. What pro-democracy advocates wanted was a system that guarantees that everyone's vote counted. Now we have a system that can't guarantee anyone's vote was counted, due to the lack of any physical records. I'm sorry, it's too damn easy to manipulate electronic data after the fact. Dont join the Socialist Party; everyone knows that they're just a bunch of closet-Stalinists. I'm now a member of the Partie Quebecois fighting for Quebecs freedom from insidious Canadian language oppression

Of course it's too easy to manipulate electronic data. Surely, everyone here is computer savy enough to understand that. Just what were y'all expecting. I think we can agree that this became a left-fashionable issue after Florida where a proportion of the populace were too stupid, senile, or incapacitiated to punch a voting card correctly. Somehow, someone from the left, decides that technology is the solution to that situation and pushes the 'hot button' issue so that congress spends millions (if not billions) buying one piece of crap or another ?????? Words escape me.

[Dinner]

This is stupid to claim it was the left's fault. The "left" had zero control over the Congress or the Executive. Those are the idiots who mandated a terrible system primarially because the owner of the Biebold Corporation paid them to favor his system. That's corrupt garbage and it falls entirely in the lap of the Republican right.

The conversation went something like this:

Dems: You know our current system really didn't work so well in Florida so maybe we should make some well thought out changes.

Republicans: OK, you want changes? I can make changes...

Dems: Maybe some sort of varifiable electronic system but we'd have to think this through carefully and let experts...

Reps: Screw that! Bob here just paid me millions to have the room painted in pink with yellow poka-dots.

Dems: WTF? That doesn't change any of our fundimental problems and is kind of gaudy.

Rep: So what? I got millions of dollars for doing it.

Dems: We think we need some real reform and not...

Reps: GOD DAMN LIBERAL WHINERS! YOU SAID YOU WANTED CHANGE AND NOW THAT I GIVE IT TO YOU YOU'RE COMPLAINING?