Vote!

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is all you're going to get.
Shangri-la doesn't exist, no matter what stories you were told at bedtime.

That attitude is worse than apathy. It's a shame when the idea of voting for a candidate rather than against one is treated with such contempt.

Besides, there really isn't a lesser or two evils for me. I can't stand either major party, and the third parties are even worse.

[Jonny]

Would a multi-party system help improve voter turnout? Probably.

Will it happen in the US? Probably not, not without a big change, anyway. Maybe things will change someday, but for now we've got to love what we've got. I'd prefer the system be largely revamped, but it'll realistically never happen.

OTOH, making Election Day a Federal Holiday would help, and it can (and should) be done. A lot of the schools and government offices around here are closed anyways, since they're used as polling places.

(Voted, btw)

[SlowwHand]

All you want to do is complain, Wycoff. I, for one, have no use for a person who only whines.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by GePap
And yet by not voting for anyone, you perpetuate a system which creates those "non-choices."

How so? How would me casting a randomly cast vote help any more than not casting a vote at all?

Given that you don't want to vote for bad candidates, do you ever think of running yourself?

Yes I have. Unfortunately, I'm not a millionaire and have no connections to any significant source of funding. Besides, I'm not yet old enough to run for any Federal office. I may run some day.

Campaign for a candidate you find that you like, hoping they become the choice?

I would if I met said candidate.

IN short, do you do ANYTHING at all for the democratic process whatsoever?

I do more for it than those who vote for candidates they don't support. I don't create a false mandate.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Wycoff
How so? How would me casting a randomly cast vote help any more than not casting a vote at all?

If you were to cast a protest vote, ie a write in, if that is allowed, then you show your displeasure at the system. All democratic regimes need to show they have legitimacy with the voters. A non-voter does not count if enough people do vote. If very few vote, or better yet, if people protest vote, they show by that action that the regime as is is losing legitimacy.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Spiff: I heard an interesting idea for a modified representation system that might adress some of the inherently disenfranchising aspects of the current system.

Our current system uses districts of rougly equal population and a representitive or group or representives from each these districts. The representives each get 1 vote that represents the collective votes of all people in the district.

Why must all the representives be equal? The districts they come from can never truely BE equal in population or registered voters and the census is done only every 10 years. Representives should only represent the people who voted for them not every person in an arbitrary geographic area. Simply count up the total votes and send ALL the people on the ballot who got any votes (the requirments to get on the ballot would probly become more stringent for balance) to Washington but with each rep voting on legislation with the number of votes they recived in the election. Shure this means were looking at vote totals in the millions for each piece of legislation but by goly I think we can handle the math and the benifits are numerous.

- No 3rd party "spoiling" atleast in legislative races, if you vote for a candidate any candidate they will represent you in every piece of legislation passed. This effectivly removes the 2 party stranglehold.

- Less negativity, with the candidacy now wide open and the end of the winner take all aproatch the insentive to go mud slinging is greatly reduced. A candidate must instead convice a voter that he is the "best" in the field, not just that their better then the one viable rival.

- No possibility to Gerrymander the districts for political advantage, infact districts below the level of the jurisdiction for the body in question could be abolished entirly. So for example everyone would get the same monster ballot or more likly all voting would be by write-in (this in one area ware computers could actualy be bring new and usefull procedure to voting rather then being used a million dollar pencils).


P.S. From what I have seen the new wave of Electronic touch screen voting machines dont allow write-in voting, and its not like it would be that difficult either, the write-ins could be stored in hash tables basicaly growing the candidate list each time someone dose a write in, if another write in matches and existing one it accumulates normaly. The memory cards their using could easily hold all the information even if every single voter wrote a different candidate in. I would not be suprized if its being removed for adsactly the block the usage GePap recomends.

[Elok]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Because our ancestors didn't leave bloody footprints in the snow at Valley Forge just so I could be the only one to show up at the polls. Do you really want me running the country?? I think not!

They didn't suffer to hand the country over to a blue-blooded, ex-fratboy, emotionally unstable chimp, either. Yet here we are.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
All you want to do is complain, Wycoff. I, for one, have no use for a person who only whines.

What exactly do you do, Sloww? I have no use for people who go along with things just because they think that they're supposed to.

[Barnabas]

Maybe if all the people were forced to vote, then third parties that appeal to those who dont feel represented by dems and repubs may appear

[GePap]

The representative system in the country can only be changed through constitutional ammendments.

The problem is that the notion of two parties, which is purely voluntary (there is no writen laws mandating or limiting us to two parties) has almost become ingrained in the political system. This has been a two party country almost all 217 years of the constitutional system, and the same two parties have been around for the past 150 years. Significant third parties have been flashes in the pan, and the two parties have colluded to crush third parties, and do as much as they can to rewrite electoral laws to cement their monopoly.

The thing is, real change can only start at the STATE level. The Federal system is just that, Federal, meaning the base remains power at the state level, the level at which the most corruption and cronyism occurs, and a level that gets no attention from the media. I mean, besides governor races, when do state legislature races ever garner much attention even in their own districts? And yet it is those state legislators that write state voting law, which decides who goes to Congress to create Federal voting law.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Basically, a democratic regime where a majority of people never vote* has no legitimacy, and political crises are potentially much worse, or more violent.

Is Switzerland (with similar voter turnout lvls to the US) considered to be a dangerous politicaly unstable country within Europe as you, Arrian, and GePap seem to be suggesting it is?

Originally posted by Zkribbler
But absent that, I want people to treasure their right to vote. I want them voting even if they have no clue what they're doing.

Why would you want them to cheapen something to that extent when you claim to treasure it?

[Pekka]

I think it is essential to vote even if you have no candidate. Then you just have your protest vote. Our protest votes usually goes to Donald Duck. Sometimes they go to illustrated vagina.

This way, you don't vote for any candidates, but you still vote.

[Dis]

I hear in Arizona they will randomly give 1 million dollars to a voter. I'm not sure I agree with that. As it will just encourage more stupid voters.

[Pekka]

That IS pathetic.

YEaa vote, because you can win million dollars! Then you have all these people voting just because they want to win and just 'i dont' care who I vote for there you go.. ' quickly over with it.

This is a bad idea. Extremely bad.

[Barnabas]

when I dont like any candidate I put a picture of jesus