Masculinity

[Nubclear]

Men are men.

We can agree on that!

And yes I do realize there is the follow the herd mentality and that men copy each other. But even when isolated men generally act like men.

What do you mean, "act like men"?

[Dis]

I'll have to do this research on this, but we all know what a failure gender reassignements have been. The famous example being the Datelin story of the Canadian who lost his penis due to a botched circumcision. They tried to turn him into a girl with disasterous results.

While I don't condone the recent trend of disrespect of women (I fail to see how that is masculine), I have to accept the philosophy of letting people be themselves and not expecting them to be meek (to use a word from the other thread).

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Dis
I'll have to do this research on this, but we all know what a failure gender reassignements have been. The famous example being the Datelin story of the Canadian who lost his penis due to a botched circumcision. They tried to turn him into a girl with disasterous results.

Some might argue that such is more an issue regarding surgery rather than gender reassignment. Some might also argue that it is not relevant - my contention is that the "Godmen" promote an oppressive, harmful, and ultimately false stereotype of men.

While I don't condone the recent trend of disrespect of women (I fail to see how that is masculine),

Some might argue that gender roles themselves are at least in part artificial and hence need no justification.

I have to accept the philosophy of letting people be themselves and not expecting them to be meek (to use a word from the other thread).

So anyone who is themselves is masculine, in your eyes?

[Dis]

I won't deny there are some harmful male stereotypes. I mentioned one. Thankfully the trend of calling women *****es back in the 90's has faded. But there are still trends of men expecting women to behave like sluts. On the other hand, men want sex, and I fail to see a reason why we have to refrain from talking about it. Or why we have to think of it as bad. Or why we have to act a certain way to be careful not to offend others.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


So anyone who is themselves is masculine, in your eyes?

If they are true to themselves, then yes. But I admit this brings up shady definitions of masculine. It's a word that can be interpreted in many ways. Most people would not consider me to be masculine, but I believe I am. Grandpa Troll even had a thread on the qualities of a man (or similar title).

I'm more curious as to what you consider harmful male stereotypes. There is no doubt there are many. But what was going on at those godmen meetings didn't seem that bad. Talking about masturbation and porn doesn't seem harmful to me at all. Nor is standing up for yourself and your family.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Dis
On the other hand, men want sex,

Not all men.

and I fail to see a reason why we have to refrain from talking about it.

So do I. I don't see that talking about the issue is particularly masculine, however, but merely an extension of reason applied in the pursuit of truth.

Or why we have to think of it as bad.

Indeed. I agree on this point as well, but again, I don't see it as particularly pertinent to gender stereotyping, except in how it is used against the genders.

Or why we have to act a certain way to be careful not to offend others.

There is a practical benefit in not offending others.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar



There is a practical benefit in not offending others.

No doubt about that. But not all men are smart enough to realize this.

[Nubclear]

I'm more curious as to what you consider harmful male stereotypes. There is no doubt there are many. But what was going on at those godmen meetings didn't seem that bad. Talking about masturbation and porn doesn't seem harmful to me at all.

I take issue with the entire notion that all men are some monolithic cultural group that behave in the exact same manner. The stereotype that if you are not a foolish risk-taker, aggressive, sexually active, etc is of course quite harmful in and of themselves (for they promote harmful activities that are not justified on a more rational basis) and because ANY gender stereotyping often leads to self-image issues later on, as large groups of people will not fit the stereotype and thus consider themselves "unwomanly" or "unmanly" when in reality they are simply different from an artificial and somewhat arbitrary (in that it isn't too grounded on reason) image of how their gender acts.

People should be allowed to be themselves without ridicule from others because they may not fit some bizarre concept of what it means to be a woman/man. This "Church", in promoting it as a church for "real men", is subscribing to a view that oppresses men by perpetuating a harmful idea of what it means to be a man (which itself I would say is harmful). Therefore, I oppose it.

[Last Conformist]

As I've so often said, all "real men" are gay.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
As I've so often said, all "real men" are gay.

say that to a real man's face.

[Last Conformist]

Do you have one at hand?

[Sava]

All real men are gay?



What about the statement, "All gay men are real"?

I don't know about that. Some are fake. That really screws things up.

[SlowwHand]

Only trannys.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Dis


say that to a real man's face.

I believe that gay men do qualify as real men

[DaShi]

"To be a man, you must have honor and a penis."