Mixed Martial Arts: What's the best?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by VJ
The point was that it's hard to miss a target area with a radius of >2 inches you're trying to hit it and if you're not too panicked to look where it's at. A simple hit will last so little time that the (yes, presumably constantly moving) target will be roughly where you predict it is.

Are you as stupid as you sound, or are you just putting it on?

You can easily miss a strike by more than half a foot on an opponent with any sense of movement whatsoever. Try landing a shot on the button of somebody who's bobbing and weaving and is circling at the same time.

Strikes to the plexus, or the testicles or the eyes require more than a fair bit of skill and luck.

[Straybow]

Must... resist... responding... to VJ...

Krav maga, taijitsu, and certain other specialized MAs are designed to work against untrained attackers, or attackers trained in a particular style. They teach the practitioner to let the opponent commit himself to an attack and deal with it in such-and-such way.

Many untrained (or poorly trained) combatants will simply launch an assault, hoping to catch the unwary victim.

Most trained combatants will not commit to all-out attack, but test the defender first. If the defender is particularly bad he might not survive the first test, but that is not the all-or-nothing goal. Even trained combatants will lose their cool and start "windmilling" if not careful.

The purpose of taking any MA is to move yourself from the unwary victim category to the trained combatant category. It isn't so much "self-confidence" you need, but rather a knowing competence, which most schools and styles can do, even ones that have been "dumbed down" from true martial (war) techniques into safe sports.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by nostromo
KH, I have thought about boxing, too. One thing I noticed about the martial arts I studied is that I never learned to give a proper punch. Boxing would fix that. Not to mention the physical training. Unfortunately, boxing is also sport and doesn't teach you street fighting techniques.

And wrestling? WTF?

Wrestling gives you the ability to take your opponent to the ground and control him there at any time you please. This is absolutely key.

I wrestled for 4 years in high school and I took kickboxing for 2 years.

The last 3 times I was in a fight I used a wrestling takedown at some point in the fight. Twice I did a hip toss and once I used a modified duck-under to get behind my opponent and then trip him from there. I've also sprawled on somebody who shot for my legs, then cross-faced his head into the pavement.

Anybody who hasn't wrestled or done at least some takedown work is just so much fresh meat at the hands of somebody who has.

As for boxing being a sport, that's absolutely true. But don't get caught up on this idea that there are these street-fighting "techniques" which make you instantly awesome. Throw a good punch and good punch combinations. Keep your guard up. Be able to take your opponent to ground and to guard against him taking you to ground. That's all I've ever had to know.

If some jiu jitsu black belt picked a fight with me then I'd be in serious ****ing trouble. But I'm not really worried about that. Most people are **** fighters. As long as you can defend yourself against that then you're already two steps ahead.

[Pekka]

THe problem wiht many MAs is not necessarily the MA itself, but rather practitioner. This is why I think Korn woudl benefit from MMA the most (or Krav Maga).

Because the saying in MMA goes, when you get hit in the face, all plans fly out of the window.

This means that if you have one-dimensional style, you can do this thing even if you can do it very well, and this dude just comes and whales on you, your'e in a fight and you might be unable to impose your .. strategy on that person. And you are screwed.

What MMA gives you is the skill to adapt to any situation in that field. It gives you strategy, as you learn how to fight standing up, on the ground, in the clinch, takedowns, defending takedowns etc. Adn you bet your balls it works against regular street guys. There is no questiona bout that, furthermore you have even trained in it as in done that to people in the gym. Not just trained the technique but you have done it many times, period. A could session of hard sparring still wins going over just technique, but of course does not replace it.

YOu get more hands on experience. This is important. It's like the old strategy many Brazilian fighters used. They used to train and get tired, and THEN train their submission techniques. That is, because most likely you will be very tired, sweaty and slippery etc, it's difficult to do those submissions, so you train that doing them in that condition. Logical, makes sense, yet many people don't do things like that.

OK so I hear you are nearly 30 and never gotten hit so it's a theme that has been going on for all this time. This is not weird. This is very usual. Even those who have gotten hit, they also wonder if they go to gym how it feels, what will happen.. And they know this at the gyms. Hey, it's a business too. It's not like they want to hurt you or shock you.

It should be an easy landing. You are in control, you go easy first and then gradually build up. And they won't start with banging up. You just train techniques, the first things you will do more physically is submissions, but that's cool stuff and you shouldn't worry about that. It's very controlled and safe.

And it's not like they'll start hitting you with no gloves and break your nose.. And it's worth it, because you'll realize soon enough that it wasn't so bad you thought it was. And that's when you really start enjoying it, because it didn't really hurt you, you can take it.

Then you spend all your energy in there so you really have no desire to do that outside the gym, unless you are some restless *******. It's a great thing man.. you'll get great work outs (usually MMA guys are one of the best athletes for a reason), new friends, new knowledge, you get this whole hitting thing over with as an issue and generally just good times.

What KH says makes also lots of sense. If you know how to box and wrestle good, you have no problems against regular people. Some of the core skills, won't let you down.

But I wouldn't want to be hit by a good boxer. They'd break my face in a second

[Ecthy]

Some people are messed up.

Aikido is cool for self control, of spirit as well as body. Won't help you make a stand in the streets at night though, unless you've practiced for 30 odd years.

The truth is nobody needs to stand a fight. If someone walks up to you with aggressive intentions, run.

That said, Aikido remains the best of options

[Pekka]

BS. Generally you can alwyas escape, but there might be a situation where you have to defend yourself.

Usually you could run but nto always. Or sometimes you run but that failed.

[Ecthy]

In which case attempting to use martial arts probably decreases your chances over just using brute force projected into one point of one enemy to get your way free. So what you need is control of your body and a bit of fitness. Fitness = work out, control of body = Aikido, not for use of techniques anyway.

BTW, martial arts experts usually agree that boxing is the most practical form of self defense.

[Pekka]

Well I think those are two completey different aspects to self defense. That is escaping, or ultimately escaping. Or the other aspect, controlling time and space and people.

I don't like how this is supposed to be exclusive thing. I don't think these are the one way or the other, rather complementing each other.

I mean, if you're facing multiple opponents, weaposn etc.. there is no better thing than to run like crazy, anything else is stupidity.

Even if you can control your opponent, you're likely to get a little banged up in the process, so is it worth it or not? Is it worth it to have a black eye the next day even though you demolished the other one? Instead if you just got out?

I'm saying, from self defense point of view there is no substitute of escaping the situation itself. That is saving your own butt before you had to defend it.

But even so, I'd still pick the one where I learn to demolish, because they are not exclusive. Just gives you more options.

[Pekka]

But if I was really worried about my safety, I'd just get a gun and go shoot thousands of rounds to learn the usage of it even in my dreams.

[Lazerus]

Eye gouging and the like sound far more attractive then wrestling to me since i doubt i'd have the frame to be able to keep somebody whos 14st on the ground in a position that favours me

[Pekka]

You don't necessarily need better physique if you have good technique. THat said, good physique helps. If you have a good wrestler on you, outpowering him might be tough, especially if all he is doing is looking to control you and position. But you can always go for submissions from your back, especially against a wrestler who is not used to that.

That said, in street fight that seems highly unlikely, and going to the ground might be a bad idea.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Lazerus
Eye gouging and the like sound far more attractive then wrestling to me since i doubt i'd have the frame to be able to keep somebody whos 14st on the ground in a position that favours me

You'd be surprised. I weigh 74 kg right now. I can easily take down and control people who weigh 100 kg who don't have the experience I do.

That isn't just theoretical. I've done it before (with friends)

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Pekka
You don't necessarily need better physique if you have good technique. THat said, good physique helps. If you have a good wrestler on you, outpowering him might be tough, especially if all he is doing is looking to control you and position. But you can always go for submissions from your back, especially against a wrestler who is not used to that.

That said, in street fight that seems highly unlikely, and going to the ground might be a bad idea.

I usually try to stay standing and do throws which don't end up with me on the ground. A couple of quick toe kicks to the ribs while they're down usually ends it.

[KrazyHorse]

If not that then dropping a hammer fist to the face from a standing position is pretty devastating too...

I avoid stomps and soccer kicks. You can kill somebody that way.

[Lazerus]

You'd be surprised. I weigh 74 kg right now. I can easily take down and control people who weigh 100 kg who don't have the experience I do.

Try weighing about 57kg lol the only thing i've found that works is neck holds, pitbull style grab hold of it and choke the life out. Otherwise anything else people bigger then me can just stand up with me clinging on like a rabid animal heh

Hammer fists and football kicks I usually avoid fights, the pain doesn't bother me, it's just i can't imagine it taking that much effort to break my limbs so i'd rather them then me and would not hold back swinging my kick in.

Would love to have done some actual MMA style fighting at some point since i'd enjoy the workout and roughness of it but time is so limited these days :\