Democrats aren't only better people then Republicans but they're better managers too.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Dis


this is a local issue, but i haven't been watching the news closely enough to comment much on it.

But it's happening all the time. Friends of people on the zoning board are getting rich. Lots of people are getting rich on land that is rezoned. Reid isn't the first politician to face scrutiny over this, but he's the most high profile one.

The point being the land would not have been able to be rezoned at all were he not actively involved in a land swap deal making adjacent lands private from federal lands.

Hate to inform all those legal eagles in the Democrat party - but unless it is documented it is not a business or a business arrangement. Without a contract it is nothing.

Look at what Reid did to make his land purchase a windfall of nearly 3/4’s of a million dollars without any documentation (or taxes, speaking of giving tax breaks to the rich):

Nevada land deeds show Reid and his wife first bought the property in January 1998 in a proposed subdivision created partly with federal lands transferred by the Interior Department to private developers.

Reid’s two lots were never owned by the government, but the piece of land joining Reid’s property to the street corner _ a key to the shopping center deal _ came from the government in 1994. [AJStrata: making the property Reid bought valuable IF the land were to be developed, and basically useless otherwise]

…

Around the time of the 1998 sale, Lessman and his company were completing a complicated federal land transfer that also involved an Arizona-based developer named Del Webb Corp.

In the deal, Del Webb and Perma-Bilt purchased environmentally sensitive lands in the Lake Tahoe area, transferred them to the government and then got in exchange several pieces of valuable Las Vegas land.

Lessman was personally involved, writing a March 1997 letter to Interior lobbying for the deal. “This exchange has been through many trials and tribulations … we do not need to create any more stumbling blocks,” Lessman wrote.

For years, Reid also had been encouraging Interior to make land swaps on behalf of Del Webb, where one of his former aides worked.

What is clear is Reid only purchased the land after some initial hurdles were cleared - specifically the land swap where developers bought useless property (”environmentally sensitive” means no development, none) in one state and then traded it in for property someplace else where they could develop. It is only after this first hurdle is passed does Reid make is purchase. But even at this early stage Reid was trading political pressure for donations:

In 1994, Reid wrote a letter with other Nevada lawmakers on behalf of Del Webb, and then met personally with a top federal land official in Nevada. That official claimed in media reports he felt pressured by the senator. Reid denied any pressure.

The next year, Reid collected $18,000 in political donations from Del Webb’s political action committee and employees. Del Webb’s efforts to get federal land dragged on.

Is it far fetched to assume the initial coordination would lead to ideas on how to really cash-in? And not in political donations, but personal wealth!

Clark County intended for the property Reid owned to be used solely for new housing, records show. Just days before Reid sold the parcels to Brown’s company, Brown sought permission in May 2001 to rezone the properties so a shopping center could be built.

Career zoning officials objected, saying the request was “inconsistent” with Clark County’s master development plan. The town board in Spring Valley, where Reid’s property was located, also voted 4-1 to reject the rezoning.

Brown persisted. The Clark County zoning board followed by the Clark County Commission voted to overrule the recommendation and approve commercial zoning. Such votes were common at the time.

So somehow the land that was not available became available - and Reid purchased it. And somehow the land that was zoned residential (and therefore would gain marginal value over time) became rezoned right before Reid ’sold’ the land to this shell company for what he paid for it! For NO PROFIT. Not even the normal inflation of money. This is right after the zoning came through that would drastically increase its value! One could have said how unfortunate that Reid sold right at the time the value would start shooting up. But he did not sell the land it seems, he simply transferred it in some verbal, mythical business deal. So when the land did sell to a developer, Reid - who clearly sold the land to this company - got a huge (and hidden) windfall.

Are we to believe Reid’s well timed moves and his clear ’selling’ of his land with zero increase in price at a time the land’s value would begin skyrocketing to business entity without any mention of Reid’s involvement or ownership, and his willingness to cough up $400K worth of real estate without any written agreement of interest in said business, is all innocent?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by VJ

Ogie Oglethorpe is the same guy who said that John Kerry wounded himself for his medals. He'll spin every conspiracy theory he gets his hand on. His technique is all about quantity crashing quality: repeating a claim until it becomes true. My advice to you is that you don't trust anything what he says. Use your own judgement in trusting external links if they are provided.

I did?

I said his wounds were self inflicted perhaps but not with premeditation and intention to gain medals. No one not even a Dem is that freakin stupid to use live ammo for that kind of purpose. That simply happened after the fact as he is and was an opportunist.

Also I beleive most of my beef with Kerry was his stateside and France shenanigans. That of course was and is public record but I suppose public record is merely conspiracy theory as well.


If you are going to slime me please be sure of what I actually did say.

[flash9286]

Ha, just one million, Hastert pocketed 2 million from a shady real estate deal, damn Democrats can't even lead in shady real estate deals.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Actually to be fair it was only $700,000 after all was said and done. He traded his $400000 investment into an equity stake in Browns company. It is unclear if the sale of this property eliminated any equity stake he has in browns company.

[Dinner]

The more Republicans crow about this the less there is actually to see. At very best this is little more then a distinction without difference (he owned the corporation which owned the land instead of owning the land ) while a more honest person would admit the Republicans have had TWO congressmen actually resign for misconduct (read: crimes; one actually has already plead guilty to accepting bribes) in the last week.

Those guys didn't resign out of the goodness of their hearts they were forced out by the party not because the party leadership was ashamed that their boys were neck deep in criminal misconduct but for no other reason then it is 3 weeks from the election and they need to get those stories out of the papers. Thus we now have the obviously meaningless "scandal" about Reid saying he owned the corporation which owned the land but not the land itself. WHAT TOTAL GARBAGE!!!

It is so sad that the Republican ditto-heads here won't admit to the obvious systemic failures of their leadership and instead try this pathetic nonse. Nothing, I repeat, nothing will ever come of Reid saying he owns the corporation which owns the land instead of saying he owns the land "scandal". It is just a mask to hide that the Republicans have built up the worst record of corruption, crime, and fraud in the history of the Congress.

[chequita guevara]

Did Ney actually resign yet?

[DinoDoc]

No, he has until the Congress gets back from recess though before they expel him.

[chequita guevara]

That's what I thought.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
A paper work issue as in:

a) Getting First Dibs on lands adjacent to areas scheduled to be handed over from the Federal government to private use when redistributed when Reid first purchased the land. ( in the world of stocks that would be considered insider information)

AFAIK, not against the law, but certainly unethical, and probably should be against the law.

b) Selling for an equity stake in Browns shell company knowing that Brown was going to request rezoning.

Neither against the law nor unethical. He and his friend joined their parcels of land together and created a joint LLC with the intention of rezoning and selling. Not as sordid as you paint it.

c) reaping the profits from Browns shell company in a disproprotiante share to his equity stake 1.1 Million profits out of 1.6 million selling price.

He got $700K.

d) Reaping those same profits knowing that Brown invoked his name to 'incent' the rezoning.

Neither illegal nor unethical.

Do we know at this point who the rezoning board was? Could Rory Reid (Harry's son) been involved in that decision as he was a county commissionar elected to office on Jan 6, 2003?

This dog might hunt, though I'm sure Rory was smart enough to recuse himself. While that will make a difference in the laws eyes, if the father of a fellow commissioner who is also a Senator wants some land rezoned, it's gonna be rezoned. Of course, the question then becomes, was it an improper rezoning? If they would have done it regardless of who owned the land, then there's no there there. Course I think a lot of the way rezoning is handled is probably corrupt anyway, but no one listens to me on such things.

[Drake Tungsten]

Is Jefferson out of Congress yet?