War elephants.

[Spec]

Were they that useful? I went to have a looksy on Wiki, but it seems that even though they were intimidating, they never really won a war. Am I right? And how did they kill them or scare them. On wiki they say alexander and the romans had found a way to deal with them...what was it? Flaming pigs?

Spec.

[Wezil]

The mice brigades.

[snoopy369]

IIRC elephants were more useful as transportation (ie, Hannibal) than as actual cavalry types. They're not as trainable as horses and ultimately nothing is as good as a human at killing other humans, which means that horses are superior (as they keep the human within range of the other human).

Also elephants were pretty slow compared to horsed cavalry.

This all beyond the fact that elephants take a HUGE amount of food to feed... like half of their day is spent eating.

[snoopy369]

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0202/elephantsneptune.html

by the way is an amusing story

[Aabraxan]

I also remember hearing that they were particularly bad about stampeding when wounded and kept trampling the nearest troops. Unfortunately, the nearest troops were usually those that weren't supposed to be trampled.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Re: War elephants.

Originally posted by Spec
Were they that useful? I went to have a looksy on Wiki, but it seems that even though they were intimidating, they never really won a war. Am I right? And how did they kill them or scare them. On wiki they say alexander and the romans had found a way to deal with them...what was it? Flaming pigs?

Spec.

The Romans

A reportedly effective anti-elephant weapon was the pig. Pliny the Elder reported that "elephants are scared by the smallest squeal of a pig" (VIII, 1.27). A siege of Megara was reportedly broken when the Megarians poured oil on a herd of pigs, set them alight, and drove them towards the enemy's massed war elephants. The elephants bolted in terror from the flaming squealing pigs.

[SlowwHand]

I'd run from a burning pig, too.

"If you're hallucinations, we're supposed to ignore you."

[Japher]

I'd think the transportation aspect of a War Elephant would be the most compeling reason to use them. Especially in a jungle where they would be able to plow through the brush, instead of having to clear as you go.

[BeBMan]

The wiki thing mentions Caesar equipping some troops with axes to injure the elephant's legs and that troops were trained to let them pass so that they couldn't do much damage. One method used IIRC by Roman at Zama was also to make lots of noises with their war trumpets to confuse the elephants and possibly to drive them back against their own forces.

Back in school my history teacher told me that those elephants were often "stimulated" with drug-like stuff to be more agressive in battle, but that also became sometimes a problem when they went out of control and attacked their own troops. He also said as a last resort in such a case the rider then would drive a wedge through the elephant's head to kill him when he was uncontrollable (never checked that, but sounded ok back then).

[Bosh]

Elephants were never that useful except as a psychological warfare tactics (but they were often good at that).

Alexander the great had two-man teams with one big strong guy with a sledgehammer and one with a huge shield. The guy with the sledgehammer would wack the elephant's toes...

[SlowwHand]

Where's PETA when you need them?

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by BeBro
The wiki thing mentions Caesar equipping some troops with axes to injure the elephant's legs and that troops were trained to let them pass so that they couldn't do much damage. One method used IIRC by Roman at Zama was also to make lots of noises with their war trumpets to confuse the elephants and possibly to drive them back against their own forces.

Back in school my history teacher told me that those elephants were often "stimulated" with drug-like stuff to be more agressive in battle, but that also became sometimes a problem when they went out of control and attacked their own troops. He also said as a last resort in such a case the rider then would drive a wedge through the elephant's head to kill him when he was uncontrollable (never checked that, but sounded ok back then).

Hm,
AFAIk at Zama the roman tactic was the thing you mentioned in your first sentence,
i.e. the romans had their cohorts spaced out so that the troops could step aside when the Elephants started their charge
and then just attack them from the sides where the Elephants could do no harm.
(AFAIK the main use of Elephants was in charge; as most armies consisted of large ranks of cohorts which normally weren´t very maneuverable Elephants charging the enemy lines could wkread havoc on the enemy troops [which, as you mentioned, also had an psychological impact, but it was very difficulty to alter the direction of the elephants when their charge had begun)

[BeBMan]

Maybe they used both

Seriously, I remember reading about the trumpets it in a book some years ago - the German wiki article mentions both methods, the English only that they passed....

[Zulu Elephant]

Should I declare my interest?

[SlowwHand]

I would think that goes without saying.