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What's wrong at Airbus? Will the A380 sink the ship?

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  • #46
    They are not Subsidies!

    Just loans....



    that only have to be paid back if Airbus makes a profit on the product....




    which somehow they have never needed to pay back even though they have made a profit on some products....
    “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

    ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

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    • #47
      I hope they get out of this mess soon. Because IMO the A 380 is a cool plane, and because of the jobs that depend on it. I just hope they will learn from that for the future and do with less mismanagement and political hick hack (does this expression exist in English?) then....
      Blah

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      • #48
        Cerb: Even money may not be able to fix this, although I admit that it probably would help (it may hurt, too). This is the type of business that demands very high quality management for survival over the long run.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #49
          Originally posted by BeBro
          I hope they get out of this mess soon. Because IMO the A 380 is a cool plane, and because of the jobs that depend on it. I just hope they will learn from that for the future and do with less mismanagement and political hick hack (does this expression exist in English?) then....
          No the expression doesn't exist in English. Unfortunately, I think we will get more political interference rather than less...

          German, French cabinets to debate Airbus crisis

          6 October 2006

          BERLIN - A joint meeting in Paris next week of the German and French cabinets is to debate the crisis at European aircraft maker Airbus, which this week announced its third postponement of the A380 double-decker jetliner.

          Germans are worried that a restructuring at Airbus will move assembly work away from the German city of Hamburg to the Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, France. Paris owns 15 per cent of the Airbus parent company EADS.

          A government spokesman, Thomas Steg, said in Berlin that German ministers would seek assurances over workers' jobs and set out views on the future of the EADS (European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co).

          But he said the political talks would not pre-empt entrepreneurial decisions, saying, "These things are strictly separated."

          German and French ministers hold a two-cabinet meeting twice per year.

          In Germany this week, attitudes to France have been hostile amid a perception that the restructuring will mainly cost Germans their jobs whereas French employees will emerge unscathed. Airbus shuttles pieces of its planes among multiple factories to keep all in work.

          The EADS labour representation council said Friday in Munich it had been assured by co-CEO Louis Gallois that no decisions had been taken yet on the future of individual factories, nor would this happen without advance discussion.

          Although EADS stock has fallen sharply this week because of the stumbling A380 project, governments covet the defence and aerospace group. Russia recently bought 5 per cent and Spain is reportedly hoping to boost its 5.5-per-cent stake to 10 per cent.

          The German federal and state governments have hinted this week that they too may seek stakes.

          Meanwhile British engineering firm Rolls-Royce said Friday it would suspend for a year the production of one of its major engines, the Trent 900, following delays to the Airbus superjumbo project that they are intended for.

          Airbus' flagship A380 planes are now two years late because the company has changed the design software used at the Hamburg plant and must still train engineers in how to use it.

          The decision by Rolls-Royce to suspend production comes after leading commercial airlines said they were assessing their positions.

          Emirates, Virgin Atlantic, Singapore Airlines and Qantas are among the customer airlines that must use older planes longer or borrow other aircraft while they wait for the A380, which seats about 550 passengers.

          In Paris, Airbus denied news reports that its chief executive Christian Streiff was about to resign. A French business newspaper said Streiff, who took over in July, was upset at interference by the French Economy Ministry and by the other EADS CEO, Thomas Enders.

          DPA
          http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=33572
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #50
            I would agree that good management is vital. Somebody screwed up at Airbus over the wiring of the A380. A well run company can cope with this kind of problem, a poorly run one can't. Time will tell. They will get every chance though.
            Never give an AI an even break.

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            • #51
              By the way, I think the co-CEO of EADS may have made a $15 billion mistake by saying that he couldn't rule out cancellation of the redesigned A350. Airbus has 100 firm orders for the non-redesigned A350, which they have yet to convert to firm orders for the redesigned A350.

              Why would anybody among the 100 orders make the conversion, when the future of the project is in doubt?
              Last edited by DanS; October 6, 2006, 13:11.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

              Comment

              • #52
                why would anybody

                not "unfirm" those orders right now?
                “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

                Comment

                • #53
                  Are you implying that it doesn't matter what he said, given the reality? Or am I misunderstanding you, and you are agreeing that it was a huge mistake?
                  Last edited by DanS; October 6, 2006, 13:23.
                  I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    I think he's implying they should cancel the orders for the a350 right now

                    Perhaps he was trying to make sure people do SOMETHING to give them cash? Would converting to the redesigned a350 cause them to delay the order, perhaps hurting the company more? I realize they have a source of cash from the governments, but perhaps they have some pressure to have SOME income?
                    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by snoopy369
                      I think he's implying they should cancel the orders for the a350 right now
                      We have a winner!
                      “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                      ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Re: What's wrong at Airbus? Will the A380 sink the ship?

                        Originally posted by DanS
                        The question has to be asked... Did Airbus bite off more than it can chew, knowing that European governments will not allow it to fail?
                        The EU is not the only company that bails out companies.

                        Isn't Boeing part of the military complex as well?
                        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                        • #57
                          These are not subsidies... but rather genuine economic demand.
                          In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by DanS
                            The 787 seems very different than the 767. The 787 uses carbon composites extensively, new hull design, new engines, etc.
                            NPR was having a report on Boeing and Airbus just a few days ago and said that the 787 was designed to be a successor to the 767 and even took the 767 as it's starting point but decided to update everything. New lighter weight materials, more efficent engines, etc...
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Re: What's wrong at Airbus? Will the A380 sink the ship?

                              Originally posted by Urban Ranger


                              The EU is not the only company that bails out companies.

                              Isn't Boeing part of the military complex as well?
                              I have to agree with fake boris on this one. Competing and winning actual contracts is not the same as simply giving a company money.
                              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                IIRC Boeing tried that yet and failed. It seems they are not very clean on that topic either...

                                BBC NEWS | Business | Europe and US in aircraft aid row
                                http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3569062.stm
                                BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
                                Ich bin der Zorn Gottes. Wer sonst ist mit mir?

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